Real important to wait 12 hours...

For the purpose of the discussion, air was called a catalyst.



We can think of a catalyst like...oh say a tangerine. Now we take one section of the tangerine and eat it...let's call that a chemical reaction.



The Tangerine, (catalyst) has been fractionally reduced in the chemical reaction, but...The tangerines basic chemical structure is unaltered. Nothing has been added to the tangerine.



In the evaporative process...something has been added to the atmosphere (air) and this constitutes a chemical change in the composition of the atmosphere. It is not the same as it was before....



Catalysts are fractionally reduced in a chemical reaction.



With respect to polymer chemistry, that is in fact a very concise and educative explanation as to how simple things cure through evaporation. But I am still confused as to my other questions regarding their usage, terminology and such. Oh well. I'm sure there's more to follow.



Oils, can add functionality to a product...they aren’t just used as fillers...I believe some to be good...some to be annoying.
 
Mr. Chemist said:
For the purpose of the discussion, air was called a catalyst.



We can think of a catalyst like...oh say a tangerine. Now we take one section of the tangerine and eat it...let's call that a chemical reaction.



The Tangerine, (catalyst) has been fractionally reduced in the chemical reaction, but...The tangerines basic chemical structure is unaltered. Nothing has been added to the tangerine.



In the evaporative process...something has been added to the atmosphere (air) and this constitutes a chemical change in the composition of the atmosphere. It is not the same as it was before....



Catalysts are fractionally reduced in a chemical reaction.



With respect to polymer chemistry, that is in fact a very concise and educative explanation as to how simple things cure through evaporation. But I am still confused as to my other questions regarding their usage, terminology and such. Oh well. I'm sure there's more to follow.



Oils, can add functionality to a product...they aren’t just used as fillers...I believe some to be good...some to be annoying.
Click to expand...



You said "No, a catalyst is a substance of which a fractional percentage notably affects the rate of a chemical reaction, without itself being consumed or undergoing a chemical change. Air, when used as a drying agent, goes through a chemical change and is not a catalyst. Air is simply important in having things dry and cure."



-------------------------------------------->Before you said that air is not a catalyst and now it is? I am a little confused?



If the air is in fact just a mechanism to start the initiation of crosslinking and really isn't a catalyst, would it still be reduced? I still don't agree that the air has undergone a chemical change just because it contains some solvent vapors. If that was true the same could be said of when someone left the cap off a bottle of nailpolish remover and it started evaporating. In yet another example, say we mixed sand and stones in a pail. Well you have a mixture now, but no chemical change has occured....... Now if we had an example of say a nail rusting.....well, an oxidation reaction it taking place and a chemical is present........



I believe the air catalyzes the process in the sense that the more of it you have, (ambient air vs. blowing air over a surface) it will increase the evaporation rate of the solvent, hence speeding the process up.



As for oils....what is good and what is annoying? Please tell........
 
Sorry perhaps I should have put that in quotes or said......that air was INCORRECTLY called a catalyst...







The California Air Resources Board and it's Reactivity Department regulates nail polish remover as the volitle organic compounds in it (VOC's) creates ozone in the atmosphere, which inturn attracts particulate matter and forms smog.



Let' just disagree on this and let it go.



It's hard for me to talk about oils too much without getting into formulation specifics...which I am not allowed to do....but...some oils are shiny, some are tenacious, some flow, some work syngestically with other ingrediants...and some are just an oily mess. And that's the kind one wants to avoid and probably the kind that has caused difficulty with product usage you have experienced.



Sometimes I use em....sometimes I dont. There's a million of them.



Now...I'm going to have to go work on this new polish...I just gave it to my detailer to try....see if he likes it....
 
Perhaps this will clear the "catalyst" and "air" thing.



Webster says:



Catalyst=a substance serving as the agent in catalysis.



Catalysis = the speeding up or, sometimes slowing down of a chemical reactionby adding a substance which itself is not changed.



Evaporate= to change (a liquid or solid) into vapor. To remove moisture from (milk, etc.) as by heating so as to get a concentrated product. To become vapor. To give off vapor. To vanish.





From this I can deduct that in waxes and polished we are talking about evaporation since we are not adding a substance that does not change. When waxes or polishes dry to a haze they are evaporating. When a liquid or solid turns to vapor a molecule must attach itself to air, changing it because of the attachement, then is carried away and consequently become smog at some point in time.
 
Quote-I'm not even a chemistry major, never mind a chemist, but couldn't petroleum distilates be classified as oils? (derived from crude oil)



The short answer is ...many solvents do contain oil...particularly those used to formulate car care products.
 
BW said:
Interesting! What wax do you use? Do you think it has anything to do with added polymers or silicones?



(As you can tell, I'm feeling hyper tonight...)
Click to expand...



Sorry for the lag....



I use to use Gliptone liquid pure carnauba wax...(good stuff)



From there I graduated to meguiar's #3 pure carnauba wax..



Then Mother's Pure California Gold wax.....



I am sure all three had quite a bit of additives to go with the "pure wax."



Lets see...Bought the 'SS, listened to a lot of people rave about Zaino....



Tried Zaino, stunk at it.....went right back to carnauba wax.





This is not meant to flame zaino or any polymers. After settling with Mothers, and getting my technique in putting the wax down in order, I compared finish quality between my club members that were sold on Zaino, versus my wax resolution. The shine, not for anything, I'd say was pretty even between our cars. But careful observation between my waxed surface and their Zaino resolution revealed that the carnauba could be worked to a point that it would develop a sharper reflection in some angles!!! I felt good about that.



Then I made the mistake into trying authentic Zymol, one of the estate waxes. It totally blew away everything I've tried before it and other finishes I've seen in person. It has an amazing resolution....its just hard to describe. It will last, however, if its applied right. It has to go on in stages, like Zymol recommends, and also it has to be buffed in stages. You do not have to pile on coatings (Zymol recommends up to five), but I have found that this wax just gets animated....I mean it literally flows off of the automobile.....at about nine properly applied and cured coatings.

It is (we all know) ridiculously priced, but, nothing could even compare to the resolution it can develop; Or at least that is what I think.:nixweiss :eek: :cool:



Edit: sorry to have broken the topic above.....looks like some interesting theories.



Let's see some cold hard evidence though. Produce a clinical study or report by qualified manufacturers, chemists, or car wax chemists, that describes car wax characteristics, including bonding and durability. (and I don't mean Guru's report either...!)
 
Yeah uhh, so do I really need to wait 12 hrs after NXT to throw a layer of carnuba on top;)



Mike, can ya answer this one :)



:p
 
Bill87GN wrote:

"Yeah uhh, so do I really need to wait 12 hrs after NXT to throw a layer of carnuba on top;) "



BW replied:

"Sigh. Read post #10, page one, por favor. Gracias!"



My input:

I just read post #10 on page 1 (by BW). Gee, I find that difficult... not knowing a thing about chemistry. :o I reckon Bill87GN, like me, may not want to take a crash course in chemistry before reading/understanding long complex posts like that. Maybe a yes/no answer with a simple one line explanation (aimed at beginners) would be good?



Yours ignorantly searching for enlightenment:bow HELP!

Cal
 
Cal and Bill,

I do not think anyone can give an exact answer to Bill's original question because of the dubious nature of NXT. No one can find in the literature a "recommended" curing time for this product.

Does NXT need to cure? :nixweiss



Empirically I would say allow any protectant to cure/dry/establish itself to the surface before adding anything, including QD's, to it. From my experience with both waxes and sealants, both have shown to increase in their visual clues after a period of settling in on their job - protecting.
 
Cal said:
Bill87GN wrote:

"Yeah uhh, so do I really need to wait 12 hrs after NXT to throw a layer of carnuba on top;) "



BW replied:

"Sigh. Read post #10, page one, por favor. Gracias!"



My input:

I just read post #10 on page 1 (by BW). Gee, I find that difficult... not knowing a thing about chemistry. :o I reckon Bill87GN, like me, may not want to take a crash course in chemistry before reading/understanding long complex posts like that. Maybe a yes/no answer with a simple one line explanation (aimed at beginners) would be good?



Yours ignorantly searching for enlightenment:bow HELP!

Cal
Click to expand...



Does this answer your question?



http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1603&highlight=NXT+cure
 
blkZ28Conv

Thanks for your post, that's helpful.:up



jfelbab

Thanks for the link. I like the way Mike Phillips explains things in laymans terms. :cool:



Happy driving!

Cal :D
 
Cal said:
Bill87GN wrote:

"Yeah uhh, so do I really need to wait 12 hrs after NXT to throw a layer of carnuba on top;) "



BW replied:

"Sigh. Read post #10, page one, por favor. Gracias!"



My input:

I just read post #10 on page 1 (by BW). Gee, I find that difficult... not knowing a thing about chemistry. :o I reckon Bill87GN, like me, may not want to take a crash course in chemistry before reading/understanding long complex posts like that. Maybe a yes/no answer with a simple one line explanation (aimed at beginners) would be good?



Yours ignorantly searching for enlightenment:bow HELP!

Cal
Click to expand...



BW said:
My suspicion is that NXT is not a crosslinking, polymer sealant, and therefore there's no need for Bill87GN to wait 24 hours before topping it with wax.



...



Therefore, we can conclude that Bill87GN can immediately top NXT with a carnauba.

Click to expand...
 
There is no need to wait 12 or 24 hours.



There's a reason Meg's does not put a curing time. For the most part when you wipe off the haze the product is cured. There might be some residual drying with some products but it doubtful it takes 12 to 24 hours.
 
Dennis H. said:
There is no need to wait 12 or 24 hours.



There's a reason Meg's does not put a curing time. For the most part when you wipe off the haze the product is cured. There might be some residual drying with some products but it doubtful it takes 12 to 24 hours.
Click to expand...



Any you know this how? Link please. Or is this just your opinion?



Here are a couple links that seems to support the fact that NXT needs time to cure.



http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1603&highlight=nxt+cure



http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1369&highlight=nxt+cure
 
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