Question about liquid vs. paste waxes

EBPcivicsi

EBPcivicsi

GOT PREP?
Ok, from what I understand about the chemical make-up of most carnauba based waxes PD's are needed to breakdown and suspend the carnauba in the formula. So does a liquid version of a wax have more PD's than a paste and therefore have more cleaning ability? Would this consequently mean that the paste would be more suited to layer? If this is true would #26 liquid have more PD's than the paste version? I like the liquids and pastes alike, but sometimes prefer to apply by PC for the ease and even layer that I get. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this.
 
The can add both PD's to Payste and Liquid although I would think the Liquid could have a little more. The other Premium Wax's Like Souveran and S100 and the Others dont have PD's.
 
Please don't get the impression I am some kinda of chemist, I'm not. But, from what I understand a paste wax will have a higher carnuba content than that of a liquid. This is because when you reach a certain carnuba content in a wax, it can no longer be kept in a liquid state.

As for the cleaning abilities, I'm not sure about. However I do see that most paste waxes I use say they have no cleaning abilities, and have to be applied to a properly preped surface. This can be proven wrong though by the megs GC paste wax. Like their liquid GC wax it is more of a one step product and has cleaning abilities, so go figure. :confused:
 
carnauba in it's natural state is hard, not liquid, and unusable on a car. Solvents are added to all wax's. The liquid wax requires a higher amount of solvents in order for the ingredients to stabilize into a liquid form. Liquid wax will hold less carnauba in order to stay liquid, the carnauba content of a paste varies by product some around the same as the liquid and some up to 10 times higher. Liquid is easier to use. Paste you will use less product per application but is genereally harder to use.

BTW, the GC wax is a polymer with some carnauba.
 
So do you guys think that #26 in liquid form would have more solvents that the paste form? Do you think the liquid version has enough Pd's in it to be counterproductive when used after a glaze? I have found this not to be true(or I can't see a difference), but would like to hear everyone's experience
 
I never had any problem putting #26 (liquid) over glazes. I have however had a problem adding GC over #7, it seemed to remove some of the #7.
 
Thomasfl said:
I never had any problem putting #26 (liquid) over glazes. I have however had a problem adding GC over #7, it seemed to remove some of the #7.
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Same here, GC(paste or liquid) seemed to take a little away, Especially when applied by PC.
 
GC is a cleaner/wax product without polymer (they'd charge more and the shine would last longer!) and the high solvent content helps it clean (hence remove a little of products underneath it). It's mostly how you apply it like with poorboy's polish w/carnuba or Klasse AIO. If you put it on a PC and buff it, the solvent and cleaning action will remove products. If you get an applicator and layer it on by hand w/o agitation the product will act as a simple wax. MOST waxes behave in this fashion and hence it's advisable to apply layers after glaze/polish with a hand applicator like painting or icing a cake. Remember that a wax or sealant will stick to the prepped surface and only the layer in contact will adhere. The rest is wiped off when the solvents evaporate off leaving the dusty haze you buff off. The rest is wasted so either way (paste/liquid) you still have the same final product. Hypothetically, the liquid (if rubbed in really good) would act a little like a cleaner.

Just a thought: IMHO GC is okay, but there really are better products out there and if you are going to take time to clean and polish, why not use a better finish?
 
Just a thought: IMHO GC is okay, but there really are better products out there and if you are going to take time to clean and polish, why not use a better finish
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No doubt, I certainly prefer s100, but I am always curious about the effects of pastes vs liquids.
 
Another quick thought I forgot to mention. Waxes are blended to alter their properties. Carnuba is blended with paraffin and beeswax along with other waxes in order to change color, clarity, durability, and workability. Obviously anything added to carnuba would soften it some as it's at the top of the hardness category.

This may be, and I don't know for sure, but maybe what the do to make it easier to produce a liquid wax. They could add more of the softer waxes and thus need less solvent to dissolve it. If that were true, then paste wax would have more carnuba per unit of weight and be more durable.

Anybody experiment with this? It sounds like most guys rewax long before the protection wears off...
 
EBP,

Just my 2 cents here.

Anyhow, generally speaking, paste wax has a higher content of carnauba than liquid wax. In liquid wax, they use more oils to emulsify the carnauba, therefore making it easier to apply and remove. More oils going on the paint surface with the carnauba might tend to give it less durability than a paste wax, but doesn't necessarly mean that it can't be layered over other products. It depends on the other "stuff" that's in a particuar product.
 
Boss_429 said:
EBP,

Just my 2 cents here.

Anyhow, generally speaking, paste wax has a higher content of carnauba than liquid wax. In liquid wax, they use more oils to emulsify the carnauba, therefore making it easier to apply and remove. More oils going on the paint surface with the carnauba might tend to give it less durability than a paste wax, but doesn't necessarly mean that it can't be layered over other products. It depends on the other "stuff" that's in a particuar product.
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Boss, I agree. What do you think about two waxes that are packaged under the same name(meg's #26)? Obviously one would think that they have the same amount of carnauba, but would the paste have less pd's and therefore be better suited than the liquid as a topper in a multi-step detail? Even if only a tiny bit, do you think you would ever notice? I don't think I would, but who knows.
 
EBP,

Without an MSDS sheet on the #26 products, I wouldn't have the slightest idea. However, my guess would be as follows:

The #26 paste would have a higher carnauba content.
The #26 liquid would have higher oil content.
Both would have similar PD content.

I would suspect that either could be layered to a degree, but I doubt that it would be benifical............ and I agree, that it would be hard to tell the difference.

I do agree with your general statement though............ a product with less PD's would/should layer better than one with more PD's, given a substantial difference in PD's between the two.
 
My experience is that the difference between liquid and paste versions isn't so much one of quality/durability, but economy. The liquid is faster & easier to use (ie, easier to get a thin coat, spreads faster, can use a PC), but you get more applications out of the paste version at the same price. My liquid versions of popular products (#26, Gold Class, Souveran) have been as durable as the paste versions (maybe even a bit longer in the Pinnacle product), and have looked oustanding.

I usually choose the paste version because I like to take my time, and I enjoy the feelng of spreading paste wax on paint.

I've used some similarly named liquids and pastes within the last 6 months, on single stage red paint.

Pinnacle Souveran Liquid (reformulated): removed paint (through #20/#26/PS)

Pinnacle Souveran Paste: no paint removed

#26 Liquid: removed paint (through #20)

#26 Paste: No paint removed

rhillstr, my understanding of Meg's Gold Class is that it is a carnuba/polymer blend, with mild cleaners to aid in application...

I just checked some of Mike Phillips' forums. It's a polymer/wax blend.


gold class #1

gold class #2 (towards the end)


I think that when "cleaning ability" is discussed in reference to these products, it's not the same thing as "cleaner/wax". These products are different both in action and intent.

My perception of the relative layering qualities of these Meg's products, from best to worst:

#26 paste
#26 liquid
Gold Class


Mosca
 
Wait a minute, who told you GC had polymers, what type of polymers does it have, and on what authority does this person claim this?
 
Source: Mike Phillips, Head Product Specialist for Meguiar's (and all around good guy and car fanatic).

The Show Car Garage server is down right now, but that's a good place to find out Meguiar's specific information (it is NOT affiliated with Meguiar's, other than that Mike, the owner of the site, works for Meguiar's).

Tom
 
rhillstr said:
Wait a minute, who told you GC had polymers, what type of polymers does it have, and on what authority does this person claim this?
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".... reduces UV ray damage and adds tough, long-lasting polymer protection." Source: Gold Class Label
 
Yep, that's what the label says. The #26 also contains polymers, as does the Medallion PPP.

Many products nowadays have polymers in them.
 
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