Question about buffing!

[alloutdetailing]

I am a mobile detailer. I have been in business for about a year and a half. I use Ardex products and this is basically all I really ever used. Every time I buff a car I leave it with a **** load of holograms and I need to pile up a crap load of wax on it to make it look extremely nice??? I guess.



I seen that most of you guys use Meguiars M105 and M205 I think it is. When I buff it's with a high speed buffer 7inch foam pads. I try not to be to heavy except for when there are heavy scratches.





What is a good combo of compound/glaze to use?



When it comes to this site I am a noob! I see you guys do some crazy crazy nice work. Well hope you guys can help. Thanks!

 

[Legacy]

Meg's 105/205, Menzerna SIP- 106FA- Power Finish- 85RDk, Wolfgang 3.0 TSM/FG. These 3 brands are on the top of the list of corrective polishes. Note: Menzerna makes Wolfgang, but the Wolfgang has a longer working time.

 

[alloutdetailing]

I am looking into Getting a some those products. Is there any links to a buffing for dummies? I know buffing is one of those things you need to kinda get a feeling for. But I have used some many different pads and compound combos that it just not working out for me.

 

[salty]

Compound pads + various compounds, then to polishings pads and polishes and then finishing pads and final polishes. After that it is technique.



For me 105-203-UF works on most, with the corresponding pads.

 

[Street5927]

As salty said, it's not the product that is causing the holograms, it is the technique. Some people are experienced enough to polish down with a rotary and not leave any holograms. I, on the other hand, am not that good. When I use the rotary to remove defects, I always finish up with the PC to remove any holograms left behind by the rotary, which leaves me with a hologram/swirl free finish.

 

[Mike_Phillips]

2 things...



If you're doing daily drivers, (production work), maybe consider not using a rotary buffer and not promising show car results. (I don't know what you're offering so no offense). If you are offering show car results and charging for it then add a 3rd step and finish out with a dual action polisher not just a rotary buffer.



I've been typing this out for so many years now but here goes again...



In order to insure a swirl free finish, you need to change the action of the tool, switch for a direct drive rotating action to an oscillating action.



I'm not saying a dual action always leaves the best looking finish and I'm not saying that you can't get a swirl free finish with just a rotary, what I'm saying is by changing the action to a dual action polisher you will insure a swirl free finish.



Recently on the Autogeek forum we've had two members post your exact same story. Then some of our members did their best to tweak their technique with the rotary to try to get them to swirl free results. End result... wasn't happening.



I suggested trying dual action polishers and and explained why and both people came back with success stories.



Sometimes it's not about how great you are, or the pads and chemicals, it's about the paint and some paint systems won't polish 100% swirl free with just a rotary buffer.



I have at least 2-5 very long and detailed threads in the "Hot Topics" forum group on MOL on this exact topic with someone posting your same story at least 3, 4 and 5 year old threads. (Can I get a witness?)



Every time it's the same problem, with the same solution.



So think about it and consider adding a dual action polisher to your multiple step process or switching to a dual action polisher for some jobs where you're not promising a show car finish.

• Porter Cable 7424XP
  
• Griot's Garage ROP
  
• Meguiar's G110v2

Are all second generation DA Polishers and have much more correction ability than their predecessors.

• The Flex 3401 is a hybrid polisher with more power than the above 3 polishers and the safety too...

For whatever it's worth, I taught almost all the detailing 101 classes at Meguiar's for the last 7 years and that means teaching thousands of people from all walks of life, Newbies to Seasoned Professionals, how to use a DA style polisher and can't remember a single person ever commenting that there's not a time and place for a DA Polisher.



2004 Mini Cooper Class at Meguiar's - First class organized through the MOL forum

2006 Roadshow in Tampa - Todd Helm was at this class

Dallas Roadshow Class in 2006 - Scottwax was at this class

2006 Class at Meguiar's - Nick Chapman was at this class

2009 Class in Dallas at our gracious host Nick Chapman's shop

FWIW

 

[alloutdetailing]

Thanks for the help!!!!



I like that flex!!! Sweet machine. I also like the Meguiars.



Do you guys always add a wax to fix the paint left with a rotary or is this not even an issue for most?





I do think that for now I can use the Orbital and just keep perfecting my skills? lol

 

[dmw2692004]

Thanks for the help!!!!



I like that flex!!! Sweet machine. I also like the Meguiars.



Do you guys always add a wax to fix the paint left with a rotary or is this not even an issue for most?





I do think that for now I can use the Orbital and just keep perfecting my skills? lol

I think that your missing the point with the whole rotary thing. Wax does not hide defects unless you are using a sealant/glaze type of product. Some of us can finish down hologram free with the rotary but still leave some light defects behind which is why a lot of us switch to a orbital machine for the finishing steps.



We tend to finish down in steps like so:

1)Compound/heavy polish- if necessary

2)Polish- to clean up the holograms/whatever if left by the compound

3)Finishing polish/burnishing- gives the paint a nice gloss



This way we are sure that there are little/no defects left behind, especially holograms.



A lot of the members here add their own steps in between if they feel that they are necessary. There is no clear-cut way to finish paint down perfectly. You can follow the basic three steps, but you may need to do more work in some areas.

 

[Dan]

I think that your missing the point with the whole rotary thing. Wax does not hide defects unless you are using a sealant/glaze type of product. Some of us can finish down hologram free with the rotary but still leave some light defects behind which is why a lot of us switch to a orbital machine for the finishing steps.



We tend to finish down in steps like so:

1)Compound/heavy polish- if necessary

2)Polish- to clean up the holograms/whatever if left by the compound

3)Finishing polish/burnishing- gives the paint a nice gloss



This way we are sure that there are little/no defects left behind, especially holograms.



A lot of the members here add their own steps in between if they feel that they are necessary. There is no clear-cut way to finish paint down perfectly. You can follow the basic three steps, but you may need to do more work in some areas.

I agree with most of your post (especially about it not clicking with him), but as the OP noticed, some waxes do indeed hide defects very well.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I am a mobile detailer. I have been in business for about a year and a half. I use Ardex products and this is basically all I really ever used. Every time I buff a car I leave it with a **** load of holograms and I need to pile up a crap load of wax on it to make it look extremely nice??? I guess.

I think that your missing the point with the whole rotary thing.

+1. How did you learn to buff? Did you have training? Or have you just been winging it? The basics are below (or Mike's 5-step process as outlined at MOL). You've got to understand that irrespective of any products, pads, or machines before you are going to get a good result.

We tend to finish down in steps like so:

1)Compound/heavy polish- if necessary

2)Polish- to clean up the holograms/whatever if left by the compound

3)Finishing polish/burnishing- gives the paint a nice gloss

 

[alloutdetailing]

waxes do indeed hide defects very well.

I know this for a fact cause I do it everyday. Thanks for backing that up!

+1. How did you learn to buff? Did you have training? Or have you just been winging it?

I was never trained. I just pickup a buffer one day and went to town. I guess really all I needed to know, or at least for now is that I'm just better off using a DA for my last step until I learn well enough how to finish with a Rotary. I guess it wasn't really that hard at all. Just takes someone to slap ya with it sometimes. hehe





Thanks you guys for being so patient with me. I just saw major thread bashing written all over this.





Here is a pic of a Lincoln Aviator I did today. I used some of the steps mentioned yesterday. Seemed to work out a hell of a lot better.Sorry for the cell phone pics.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Your pics look good.

I know this for a fact cause I do it everyday. {use wax to conceal defects}

I was never trained. I just pickup a buffer one day and went to town.

Thanks for being honest. It is beyond me how someone with no experience in machine polishing "just picks up a buffer" and becomes a "professional detailer". No offense, but people like you are the bane of many pro detailers on this site. A rotary hack job concealed with fillers.



However, you seem willing to learn, I hope you take my comments in a constructive manner and stay here and properly learn the trade.

 

[alloutdetailing]

Yeah I been doing cars for such a long time and Always hated the fact that I had to work for someone else. So I started detailing. Only real issue I have is buffing. If a customer asks me I just tell em I'm booked up or whatever. Only reason I am buffing now is because it is for a dealer who runs them through the auctions so as long as it looks good they can care less. So it's good for me cause I get to test myself every day.





And never take offence to people telling me I don't know what I am doing. That's why I asked for the help lol. Thanks again

 

[dmw2692004]

Yeah I been doing cars for such a long time and Always hated the fact that I had to work for someone else. So I started detailing. Only real issue I have is buffing. If a customer asks me I just tell em I'm booked up or whatever. Only reason I am buffing now is because it is for a dealer who runs them through the auctions so as long as it looks good they can care less. So it's good for me cause I get to test myself every day.





And never take offence to people telling me I don't know what I am doing. That's why I asked for the help lol. Thanks again

I feel like this is bad practice. I would never just go to town and leave holograms all over the car and fill them. It just leaves bad feelings all over the place, especially if the person who buys the car comes back and complains/bad word of mouth and stuff like that.



If youre doing really high volume and dont care that much about quality, then I guess you can just pump out cars that have fillers all over them, but if I were you I would looking into just doing a glaze then wax without a buffing step for some of that volume work. It saves you time, you dont create a future problem with the holograms, and chances are the customer wont see the difference. I learned this with an old body shop client. I did a 2-step correction on an acura, then did a glaze/wax on another acura the next day and body shop as just as happy with the glaze/wax as he was with the two step. You might want to think about that..

 

[salty]

I feel like this is bad practice. I would never just go to town and leave holograms all over the car and fill them. It just leaves bad feelings all over the place, especially if the person who buys the car comes back and complains/bad word of mouth and stuff like that.



If youre doing really high volume and dont care that much about quality, then I guess you can just pump out cars that have fillers all over them, but if I were you I would looking into just doing a glaze then wax without a buffing step for some of that volume work. It saves you time, you dont create a future problem with the holograms, and chances are the customer wont see the difference. I learned this with an old body shop client. I did a 2-step correction on an acura, then did a glaze/wax on another acura the next day and body shop as just as happy with the glaze/wax as he was with the two step. You might want to think about that..

Some good advice there. Stick around and you will find a method that works for you.

 

[salty]

Your pics look good.







Thanks for being honest. It is beyond me how someone with no experience in machine polishing "just picks up a buffer" and becomes a "professional detailer". No offense, but people like you are the bane of many pro detailers on this site. A rotary hack job concealed with fillers.



However, you seem willing to learn, I hope you take my comments in a constructive manner and stay here and properly learn the trade.

I will take Setec's comment one step further.



Any one can pick up a buffer and compound paint, but it's finishing that requires the finesse. If you are compounding paint it is a 3 step process, though some of the newer products can bring it down to 2. There are no short cuts and this is where most fail.



Waxes and glazes only hide the imperfection for a short time.

 

[Mike_Phillips]

And never take offense to people telling me I don't know what I am doing. That's why I asked for the help lol. Thanks again

Thanks you guys for being so patient with me. I just saw major thread bashing written all over this.

We all start at the beginning and that's knowing nothing and if you have an open mind to learning then you can get better and better.



I find the best detailers tend to be detailers that hang out on discussion forums and its a great way to learn about new products and techniques.



Most of the forum members on Autopia are willing to lend a helping hand and see you through to success...

 

[Envious Eric]

Your pics look good.







Thanks for being honest. It is beyond me how someone with no experience in machine polishing "just picks up a buffer" and becomes a "professional detailer". No offense, but people like you are the bane of many pro detailers on this site. A rotary hack job concealed with fillers.



However, you seem willing to learn, I hope you take my comments in a constructive manner and stay here and properly learn the trade.

no kidding they do, its a cell phone, no sun, and from to far away...:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:, just had to point that out!



but what others are saying, rotary the first two steps with compound/polish, then finish at a slower RPM with a finishing pad with a fine polish like FPII, UF, 85rd. OR, finish with a PC.



Mike Phillips, are you saying swirls meaning buffer trails/holograms??? swirl marks to me are the washing induced scratches all over every single car. buffer trails come from the rotary polisher...

 

[alloutdetailing]

Maybe I explained myself wrong. I been using a buffer for about 4 years now. I didn't say I am a pro. If I was I would have never posted this thread. I always just assumed these where the steps to take.



This is something I really love to do and hate to work for someone else. So far I have a few accounts and full blow Cargo van fitted with 300gal water tank, Ambulance inverter,generator,rags,compounds,blah blah.



All I am missing is a DA. Now what sets me apart at the point when I receive my DA from all the other detailers now knowing what I should do? I am open to all help, flames,comments and all. I never offer something I am not 100% sure I can do.

 

[Dan]

Maybe I explained myself wrong. I been using a buffer for about 4 years now. I didn't say I am a pro. If I was I would have never posted this thread. I always just assumed these where the steps to take.



This is something I really love to do and hate to work for someone else. So far I have a few accounts and full blow Cargo van fitted with 300gal water tank, Ambulance inverter,generator,rags,compounds,blah blah.



All I am missing is a DA. Now what sets me apart at the point when I receive my DA from all the other detailers now knowing what I should do? I am open to all help, flames,comments and all. I never offer something I am not 100% sure I can do.

Don't let the haters get you down, you are doing the right thing, try to learn more. Mike Phillips is a detailing legend and has put together some awesome guides on Meguiars Online Forum, there are also some really good guides here. Just read, learn, practice and perfect. Post your location on your profile and you may get some help from someone local.