Q's for Correction Detailers about fast correction of hard paints.

X

Xilleration

Lumin De Lumine
I really need to speed up my approach for machine polishing. Up to now, its been two or three step polishing with wool & foam pads using either GTechniq P1 and sometimes 3M FCP or Menzerna polishes.



95% of my customers are BMW & VAG owners because of the circles I advertise in and a lot of these paints can be rock solid and time-consuming to correct.



So I'm thinking of sanding more often on the harder paints if it makes for faster delivery of results. If I need to introduce new machines and systems then I will. So here are the questions...



What are the favoured sanding discs. Up to now, I used Mirka Abralon but do people find that they don't last very long. I used them on my PC 7424. How many panels do you guys get with a disc?



Do you recommend that I run a Mirka DA (or similar) off my compressor instead?



The other part is removing the sanding marks. Again, speed and efficiency is what I am going for. Is the Megs MF system going to work faster than say the foamed wool and orange pads? I realise that it gets to a certain finish without leaving holograms, etc.



Then for the MF pads, what do you think of using them with Compressor-driven DA's instead of the electric ones.



I'd be very interested to hear what other pro's do, especially on harder paint, that makes for more efficient paint corrections.



Thanks!

KaPow!
 
Have you tried a one step correction like Menzerna Power Finish PO203S and a Lake County (LC) Orange or a Green pad
 
Are you on a rotary or da polisher? I can spin my rotary to 3000 rpms when cutting with sip and orange or yellow ccs pads, but I'm working indoors, if you're working outside this might be tough, as the polishes would likely dry out quickly. Maybe you're looking at this the wrong way, instead of trying to speed up the process, raise your prices!!!
 
JohnKleven said:
Are you on a rotary or da polisher? I can spin my rotary to 3000 rpms when cutting with sip and orange or yellow ccs pads, but I'm working indoors, if you're working outside this might be tough, as the polishes would likely dry out quickly. Maybe you're looking at this the wrong way, instead of trying to speed up the process, raise your prices!!!
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heh, I like your angle. I'm hoping to do both really, John. But I think clients would like to have their cars back sooner.



I'm a rotary user and have my own workshop with big lighting. You spin up to 3000... well, my machines are certainly capable of that. I have a few FLEX polishers. I rarely go over 2000 but I don't really like going higher. I will give it a go though.



Thanks TOGWT. Yep, I use that system but I'm just checking to see where people possibly knock a few hours (hopefully) off polishing rotary or DA methods either with or without sanding. I might be looking for a silver bullet that doesn't exist though!! I'm sure it would be standardised if that were the case, but I don't do enough full vehicle sanding to decide if that is the path to go down.
 
I don't think I'd try to short cut a correction with wetsanding unless it was a pretty extreme issue. Plus, I really can't see it being much of a time saver. I've found that using an 8" foam orange waffle cutting pad from American Buffing and either Optimum Hyper Compound or Meguiars #105 will cut through even the toughest paints at 1400-1800 rpms.
 
I'm of the opinion that the words "fast" and "detailing" don't belong in the same sentence. It takes how ever long it takes and your clients need to understand that, or simply choose a less involved paint correction package. On a lot of paints the MF system can save you a little time as your doing the correction of 3 rotary steps on only two DA steps, plus you're 100% hologram free. On super hard clears like Audi and BMW you may want to opt for Surbuf and M105 though.



Air DA's lack the torque of the electric units like the GG6. Air is great for wet sanding and the finishing step of the MF system, but it won't work as well for correction.
 
Another thing to keep in mind is that the faster you try to go while doing correction (as in, the more aggressive you get in an effort to save time) the higher your risk of damaging the finish you're working on becomes. So ask yourself, is it really worth the potential liability issues for you to get a project out the door in a hurry? Personally I'd rather keep a customer waiting on their vehicle longer than give it back to them so they can head to a body shop and have me pay for a paint job.
 
RaskyR1 said:
I'm of the opinion that the words "fast" and "detailing" don't belong in the same sentence. It takes how ever long it takes and your clients need to understand that, or simply choose a less involved paint correction package. On a lot of paints the MF system can save you a little time as your doing the correction of 3 rotary steps on only two DA steps, plus you're 100% hologram free. On super hard clears like Audi and BMW you may want to opt for Surbuf and M105 though.



Air DA's lack the torque of the electric units like the GG6. Air is great for wet sanding and the finishing step of the MF system, but it won't work as well for correction.
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Rasky I agree with the words fast and detailing don't belong in the same sentence, but on hard paints do you really think its faster to do two microfiber DA steps with d300 and d301 then it is with the rotory and three steps of compounding and polish? I know your efficent with the rotory, that s why I ask. For me I love both machine's but on hard paint why not just go with two rotory steps like m105 and wool and 205 foam? Just sticking with Megs products there.



Also to the OP on hard paint if your sanding, its gonna still be just as hard to cut threw scratches as it is sanding marks, why create more work if its not needed?
 
If you are rotary user dynabrade attachment is the best thing to cut down on time. With Forced rotary settings it just mops up the scratches without leaving halograms. Three step correction becomes two step job, and the shine is much better than the DA applications. The trick is move the machine slower than you are use to with regular rotary but the rest is the same. By the way I am not talking slower rpm but the movement of the machine.
 
Barry Theal said:
Rasky I agree with the words fast and detailing don't belong in the same sentence, but on hard paints do you really think its faster to do two microfiber DA steps with d300 and d301 then it is with the rotory and three steps of compounding and polish? I know your efficent with the rotory, that s why I ask. For me I love both machine's but on hard paint why not just go with two rotory steps like m105 and wool and 205 foam? Just sticking with Megs products there.



Also to the OP on hard paint if your sanding, its gonna still be just as hard to cut threw scratches as it is sanding marks, why create more work if its not needed?
Click to expand...





D300/MF on hard paint...probably not, but it depends on how deep the defects are and if their are a lot of RIDS. I feel the D300/MF cuts through shallow swirls on all paint types with ease. Now if we're talking about Surbuf/M105 like I mentioned in my original post....I'd say the majority of the of the time, yes. ;)





I'll always reach for the DA first now....if that's not cutting it then I grab the rotary/wool. On wet sanding jobs I still prefer the rotary though. :bigups
 
Okay.



I was just testing you guys. You all passed!



Yeah, I'm pretty much of the same opinion as you all. Paint correction is something that should not be rushed. I realise that and when I said the word "fast" in my original post, I really mean "more efficient" I suppose.



I don't claim to be the best machine polisher in the world or have a diva attitude with my clients, but I do want to make sure they get value for money whilst also getting an immaculate finish. I'm using Flex rotaries for a few years, and bought the 3401 about 6 months ago (so don't really need the dynabrade attachment).



I guess I will continue as usual. Its a 2002 M3 tomorrow so another drop of the hard stuff getting the treatment!



Thanks guys.

KaPow!
 
Work for quality and your speed with naturally improve. Don't try to sell fast - at least asking us about it, we will tell you "don't work to be fast". :) Good luck tomorrow.
 
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