Professional Hand Detailers...

ive deleted my post & apologized & appreciate you guys being easy on me .. im 4 days into a divorce & i should have checked myself before i posted something mean & nasty i took out my anger on someone who didnt deserve it .. if you want to comment on my situation please pm me . im going to have to put my detailing on hold for awhile but ill be here as usual . im doing the best i can & its hard when kids are involved.. once again my most sincere apology.i dont want to discuss my situation here as it really brings me down but i wanted to let you guys know why i went off like that..
 
I think that we are all entitled to our opinions, but in the short time that I have been on this site I have noticed that most individuals are respectful.

IMO-

By hand, pc, rotary, foot or jackhammer it is the results that matter! If you are honest w/ yourself and put in 110% into your work, then the finished product should be worth the $$$$ spent by the customer(whether $225, $100 or $500).

I have a problem w/ the "quantity vs quality" detailer who charges $100 and considers an hour and twenty minutes a full detail (there are guys out there who do this). I cannot believe that you can fully detail a vehicle in that time and believe that this will effect the customers understanding of what a full detail really is. Does anyone agree/disagree???

Respectfully,

pmd
 
The Mighty Rotary

I have an older gentleman that I work with who thought I was nuts using a buffer on cars. He gave me all kinds of crap about the old days and doing everything by hand. He finally gave in one day and let me show him how to use the rotary. Now he only waxes the vehicles by hand. Said he doesnt know how he did without it all those years.
:beer
 
I'm not trying to throw fuel on a fire here. I'm just trying to understand the mind set here. I truly believe that there are all kinds of professionals, whether it be someone who accomplishes their work by hand or someone who utilizes other resources to get their desired end result. Personally I think that the term Hand Wax or Hand Anything has a certain appeal to it.

Having said that I'm having a hard time understanding how you can service only the high end maintenance type customer described previlously without considering that even these type customers have bad things happen to their finish that aren't serious enough to require a body shop for instance. If these big buck customers have to turn to someone else to fix these slightly more than simple problems, don't you run the risk of them finding someone that can "handle" it and because this new found detailer is more capable (complete) sticking with them?

I would hate to think that my bread and butter customers are turning to someone else because I can't/don't use something like a rotary. Do you have someone that you refer this type of customer to that won't sell you down the river? Frank in all your years of business you must have seen this type of situation happen, can you further enlighten me on this possiblilty?
:huh
 
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GearHead_1

Well said !!! I agree with your statement !!! My best customer is always looking to push the limits of my abilities. Before I started detailing for him (dealer) I never wet sanded a car in my life. Last month I wet sanded the entire hood of a Black 1954 MGB TF !!! The hood came out great and the feeling of accomplishment was well worth the challege and the $$$ didn't hurt either !!! :lmfao
 
GearHead_1 said:
I'm having a hard time understanding how you can service only the high end maintenance type customer
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If your bread and butter customers are turning to someone else because you can't/don't use something', how long do you think you would still be able to remain in business?

Remember, when you base your business on 100% retail customers only, you do not have to be concerned with the foolishness of car dealers always looking to push the limits of your abilities. All you really need to do is stay focused on meeting the needs of each and every one of your retail customers. It's not that difficult.
 
Frank, I believe you've used my quote but tried to address CleanDean's comments.

mirrorfinishman said:
If your bread and butter customers are turning to someone else because you can't/don't use something', how long do you think you would still be able to remain in business?
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This is exactly what I am asking you? Do you have an answer?

mirrorfinishman said:
Remember, when you base your business on 100% retail customers only, you do not have to be concerned with the foolishness of car dealers always looking to push the limits of your abilities. All you really need to do is stay focused on meeting the needs of each and every one of your retail customers. It's not that difficult.
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I wasn't asking anything about dealers. It's the retail customer to whom I was refering. They have problems that you've said you don't fix. What do you do when one of these people is your long term bread and butter customer?
 
Retail Customers...

Some of my retail customers have some demanding needs also, and I would hate to turn them away because I only "hand detail" cars. I guess I wouldn't mind detailing high end garage queens day-in and day out, but how many of these enthusiast are out there and are enough of them located in proximity to each other to sustain steady business (if detailing mobile).

The reality of my business is I will detail just about anything and charge accordingly. I believe that most of the members of DC are in the same boat. I have detailed a Ford Hot Rod this year that cost well over $200K to restore/customize, and I have also detailed some full-size SUV's that were real pigs dives !!! I even feature one of these monsters a 1998 Lincoln Navigator on my website.

http://www.likenewautos.net/index.php?get_page=1&get_sub_page=0

Now here is a question related to product use and technique for you Frank...

If your hand detailing a moderately oxidized black clearcoated car with moderate wash scratches and spider webbing...

what compound/polish would you use to remove the scratches and oxidation?

how do you apply these products (compounds/polishes) by hand?

If a regular customer comes to you with some moderate paint defects that are correctible, do you correct them by hand only, or do you do any work with a rotary?

Lastly, Frank I see that you have a "niche" customer base that appreciates hand only work, but I am biased towards using a machine because of my personal detailing experiences. I like the rest of us started out hand detailing, then graduated to my first PC before working with the rotary. I am 100% completely biased toward machine work, and unless someone can demonstrate hand products that are as efficient/effective a machine work my bias will remain unchanged.
 
After reading all of the comments, here is what I believe to be the driving force.
It is a customer's ego or pride.
I can imagine a person with an expensive car saying to a friend ...
"It is only the best for my baby ... only touched by human hands ... no drive through car washes for her ... my detailer treats her like a baby ... "
It is all about marketing and customer satisfaction!
Let the results speak for themselves!
 
kimwallace said:
After reading all of the comments, here is what I believe to be the driving force.
It is a customer's ego or pride.
I can imagine a person with an expensive car saying to a friend ...
"It is only the best for my baby ... only touched by human hands ... no drive through car washes for her ... my detailer treats her like a baby ... "
It is all about marketing and customer satisfaction!
Let the results speak for themselves!
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kimwallace: Thank you! Finally, someone understands.

gearhead1: To set the record straight, I have been in business for more than 18 years and never had a situation where a current customer of mine had a problem with the finish on their vehicle that I couldn't fix.

cleandean: All of my current customers have demanding needs. That's why they trust someone who only details by hand. And your guess that all hand detailed cars are 'garage queens' is simply not true. That's just another one of your assumptions about hand detailing.

Last post on this topic.
 
completely confused with your answer...

cleandean: All of my current customers have demanding needs. That's why they trust someone who only details by hand. And your guess that all hand detailed cars are 'garage queens' is simply not true. That's just another one of your assumptions about hand detailing.
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My assumption are:

Only superman can correct by hand what takes me hours to correct with a rotary machine.

I was hoping you would give some examples of products and techniques you use to correct paint defects by hand.

If I knew of products and techniques that were as effective as machine usage, I would sell them (my machines) off for a nice $$$ and hand detail myself.

However your response ...

Last post on this topic.
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I'll live with my assumptions until someone proves my assumptions wrong.
 
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Re: completely confused with your answer...

Clean Dean said:
My assumption are:

Only superman can correct by hand what takes me hours to correct with a rotary machine.

I was hoping you would give some examples of products and techniques you use to correct paint defects by hand.

If I knew of products and techniques that were as effective as machine usage, I would sell them (my machines) off for a nice $$$ and hand detail myself.

However your response ...



I'll live with my assumptions until someone proves my assumptions wrong.
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Gee I was really going to stay out of this only because i can't see myself ever really siding with Frank:rolleyes:

but...the last 15 years i was detailing and 90% high end vehicles, it was ALL by hand. I worked on at least 7 National Show Winners and countless street rods, Porshes, Mercedes, and Ferraris.

Working by hand is grueling work, I will totally admit. 6-8 hour details were not out of the question and were often the case.
As Frank did say, some of these people would not hire you if you told them you used machines:dunno Yes I have an extensive background using rotarys and have just recently (about a year), been playing with the pc.

OK now to your questions about technique...when working by hand, an assortment of differnt types of application cloths is needed...this is a trial and error method that takes many years to really figure out, but it's on the same premise of different aggressiveness of pads. The more you need to remove of imperfections the more coarse the cloth has to be and then you move to smoother and smoother cloths. I still know many street rodder who use diapers on their 40k+ paint jobs even though I've tried to convince them that mf is better.

As for products...that is up to each detailer on what they prefer and how open they are to using newer and better products.
There have always been different level of aggressive products as there are now, but todays products which are more user friendly.

Hoped this helped Dean, and I still can't believe I agree with Frank on anything:lmfao
 
Thanks Poorboy !!!

That explains things a little better !!! I guess a 4 to 8 hour exterior detail could be the norm with moderate paint imperfections. I have only been detailing professionally since 2000, and I value the experience and real hands on knowledge of people like yourself that have been "in the trenches" longer.

Thanks Again!
 
Basically after years of doing work by hand, it takes its toll on arms, backs, and shoulders. I like my pc the more I use it, but I do tend to go back to hand work on small deeper imperfections, as awd330 can tell you as I removed a finger nail deep scratch, about an inch long, with a shop towel and PP. Old habits are hard to break:lol I have recently taken more of an interest in going back to the rotary, especially since my heart operation and I've lost the ability to rub a finish for prolonged periods of time.
Dean you would have done well in the old days, as the products were a bear to remove and work in thoroughly:)
 
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