Products over 1Z?

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imported_ThreeSixT

New member
Was wondering if following the UPP, Paint Polish, and Metallic Polish with P21S Paste would have any adverse affects or work well together? I personally like the look of a carnuba topper, but not sure how it would work.



Would you recommend followng with Glanz Wax instead of P21S Paste....or following with P21S Paste?



Are the 1Z Polishes polymer based? If not, then how well do they protect?



TIA :xyxthumbs
 
ThreeSixT- Seems I'm always chiming in with my $0.02 on 1Z products :o



I've used numerous things, including carnaubas, over PP and MP and never had any compatibility issues. SOME people have reported possible bonding issues when using P UPP over 1Z polishes, but that combo seemed to work fine for me. When they repainted the S8 after its "deer incident", they had to use lacquer thinner (!) to get the PP/MP/P UPP combo off! None of their regular "PreCleano" type solvents would cut it. Heh heh, they were VERY interested in what I had on there.



I haven't used P21S over 1Z, but I'm quite certain it will bond just fine. I've used it over plenty of OTHER things and it's always worked OK. Carnuabas like P21S seem to work great over anything.
 
they had to use lacquer thinner (!) to get the PP/MP/P UPP combo off! None of their regular "PreCleano" type solvents would cut it
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I would be interested in knowing how could they tell if the products were there or not ;)



Carnuba Waxes top very well 1Z polishes or wax. :cool:
 
jgv said:
I would be interested in knowing how could they tell if the products were there or not ;)
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I didn't, uhm, interrogate them on that, but yeah, I DID wonder if they were getting fisheyes or something. There was one that they had to take care of, so that might've been it.
 
Cause as you know, there's always a 'don't know if the product is still there' topic on discussions, would be nice to have a method to know it besides measuring beading.
 
Yeah, though this was sorta a different type of situation. They had to blend the new paint back into the door, which was VERY well (and recently, right before I hit the deer) detailed with the 1Z/P UPP combo. The P UPP was only a couple weeks/two washes old. As he was explaining it, their solvents were beading up instead of stripping off the products.



On that car, I've never let it get even remotely close to NEEDING to be redone. It's sorta a garage-queen, since I can't stand the new Audis and thus might be keeping it for a LONG time.
 
It's sorta a garage-queen, since I can't stand the new Audis and thus might be keeping it for a LONG time.
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At least they are not as ugly as the new BMWs :scared , in fact, the new A8 is quite aggressive, nice IMHO. :xyxthumbs



But yours is one of a kind :bow
 
OK, I have to chime in even though it's the weekend and the super bowl is about to start :D



First, about the shop having to use thinner... I question one thing: Why didn't they wetsand the area to be painted??



First, you wetsand. After words, you use a prep agent to remove any contaminants such as any dust and any silicone or wax or any thing that can possibly get on the surface. This way, you have a virgin surface to paint on and the paint bonds to the sanded area. Only shops like Maaco and 1 Day Paint and Body spray directly over non-prepped paint. It's saves time and money - for them. The prepping phase and finishing phase are the most time consuming aspects of a re-paint.



The reason why they had to use thinner is because most of today's prep agents (which are solvent based) have to meet strict California environmental codes which allow only a certain percentage of VOC (volatile Organic Compounds). Solvents are 100% VOC. So, most prep agents are blends of water and solvent. Unfortunately, this makes for a very weak prep agent. That is why it was beading over our products which are quite durable - namely Glanz Wax.



In Europe, while VOCs are a concern and environmental regulations are stricter, they look at the big picture. Because prep agents over here are so watered-down it takes a lot more product to achieve what a higher solvent percentage -based prep agent could do. In Europe, their prep agents are 100% solvent so they use less product and get the job done the first time.



Our Glanz Wax's synthetic formulation is very durable even against road salt and therefore California regulated prep agents. That's why the shop had a hard time getting it off.



Our prep agent, Acrysol, is 100% solvent-based and therefore limited to use by shops outside of California, New York and the 5 other states that utilize the California code.



In the meantime...



As far as bonding issues are concerned, I'm going to relay directly from our chemists since they are the experts with the degree and I'm not: disregard 'bonding' issues with our product line or any other product line. And I'll leave it at that. :)



Our products will work fine with other well known products. Of course they always work better with our products! :xyxthumbs



Use a carnauba paste wax when durability is not an issue. But then again, carnauba is already in our Metallic Polish/Wax. Metallic contains premium white carnauba wax plus polymer wax (when I say 'polymer' I do not mean acrylic). Or you can use Express Polish (contains premium white carnauba) or Waxpolish Soft (contains the highest amount of white carnauba and polymer waxes).



Glanz Wax if you are looking for synthetic durability. Has a melting point of 280°F, is road salt resistant and tested to withstand multiple visits to the carwash--and apparently most prep agents :). Not as deep of a gloss as carnauba but you will find it very satisfactory. Great gloss, easy to apply and remove and lasts a long time.



Hope this helps.



Regards,
 
Mike- Thanks, very informative. Thanks for specifically saying what "protection" is in the Metallic Polish.



As far as the use of solvents pre-painting on the S8, maybe I wasn't as clear as I should've been. The shop that did the work (Stoddard Imported Cars, their reputation in the Porsche restoration community speaks for itself) likes to remove the wax/etc. BEFORE they do any sanding. This is also how I was taught to do it back in the '70s, and the idea was/is to not risk somehow imbedding the protection by sanding on it. Remove it FIRST, get down to bare paint, THEN sand. I can see arguing it both ways, but I'm not about to tell Jay how to prep cars before he paints them ;) Heh heh, I'm a demanding enough customer as it is.



BTW, they weren't removing Glanz wax, but rather the waxes in the 1Z polishes and the P UPP I had applied over them. I'm gonna tell Stoddard about your Acrysol prep product. I'm not surprised you have a good product for THAT too :xyxthumbs



Glad to hear your (and your chemists') take on the "bonding" issue too. I agree that it's vastly overstated.
 
jgv said:
At least they are not as ugly as the new BMWs :scared , in fact, the new A8 is quite aggressive, nice IMHO. :xyxthumbs



But yours is one of a kind :bow
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Thanks for the compliment. For ME, the S8 is just about perfect (though I'd prefer to NOT have the "parktronic" and navigation stuff, or drive-by-wire). Don't get me wrong, the new A8L is a *VERY* nice car, it's just that my wife and I are pretty old-school when it comes to our Audis. Heh heh, she wouldn't even consider a S8 for herself because she likes her A8's (now discontinued) interior treatment so much better! Lucky me, I might not have to buy her another car :D



And, worst of all, by the time they release the new short wheelbase performance version, it's gonna have the new "Audi face", which *WE* think is about as ugly as can be :( All the performance in the world won't make up for that, *FOR US*. Well, that's easy to say NOW, but wait until I drive one ;)



Sorry, don't mean to thread-jack with my Auid-ranting :o
 
ThreeSixT said:
So when would I use Express?



and Spruh..in betweed QD's? Would it extend the life of my carnuba topper?
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Express is good as a stand alone or if you want to add depth and gloss to a paintwork finish. This is the top choice for detailers who's customers want a quick polish/wax. If you top it with Glanz Wax, you can maintain the appearance for a lot longer.



Spruh Wax is good for touching up specific areas or also as a stand alone quick polish/wax for the entire vehicle. It's not a traditional quick detailer. That we have coming out soon and will utilize polymer proection.



Nothing can technically add to the life of another product. Essentially, reapplying a product will start the count down again :)



Accumulator: OK, now I understand. Yes, we did the same thing in the shop. Wipe down, wetsand, wipe down, tack cloth and paint. Sounds like a reputable shop. If you are able to refer us to them, that would be much appreciated. Thank you.



Feel free to ask more questions guys.



Regards,
 
Mike- OK, now we're on the same page :) And I'm always happy to recommend good products. I suspect they're gonna use whatever Porsche/Audi decrees, at least "officially", but that doesn't mean their guys won't keep some stuff of their own handy!
 
So if I use these in the following order:

UPP, PP, MP, EP, and GW...

When I want to do a partial re-wax, can I re-apply EP or Spruh over Glanz?...or do I have to start over?



If I have to start over, I would rather skip the Glanz and just re-apply the Express or Spruh followed by a Carnuba Topper for ultimate protection...kind of like topping AIO with a Carnuba...and skipping the SG. Cause basically, Glanz is the equivalent to SG right?



Which route would fair better in your personal or professional opinion?



Thanks again :bow
 
Too many steps. Choose either Metallic or Express but not both. They are too similar to notice any difference. If you were to finish off with PP and finish off with GW, you will be very pleased with the results. So, working Metallic or Express in there will give you even better results.



Using Express or Spruh over Glanz Wax will only remove most of it. GW is durable against everything except solvent.



Glanz Wax and SG (I believe this is klasse Sealant Glaze?) are worlds apart. GW is polymer synthetic wax while Klasse is acrylic based. The only thing they share in common is 1) they are both called polymers and 2) they are both liquids. The word 'polymer' is as general as the word 'color'. It describes something (in this case 'polymer' refers to synthetic) but comes in many different varieties and purposes.



Compare GW to organic wax like you would compare regular motor oil to synthetic motor oil. Synth motor oil is 100% man made, has the general characteristics of natural oil but can withstand higher stress and temperatures. Same thing with GW. It's man made, more durable than organic wax and can withstand temperatures up to 280°F.



And while it goes on like a liquid, it's only because solvents in the product act as a carrier for the wax. As soon as you apply it, the solvents evaporate leaving the wax behind. At that point you just wipe and buff like you would with any other wax. GW can last up to 6 months which of course depends on a variety of factors. But generally, it far surpasses organic waxes (which by the way carry some degree of synthetic wax for added durability).



SG is acrylic. You apply it and have to let it cure. It lasts much longer than organic or synthetic wax because it's semi-permanent.



Which one you choose is strictly based on preference and needs. But once SG is applied to the paintwork, you can't just polish the paintwork directly because SG is a semi-permanent coating.



Regards,
 
Thanks again Mike. 1Z here I come. :xyxthumbs



What are the differnces between EP and MP? Why do some companies sell them together in a kit if that is the case?

My interpretation is that MP is a low abrasive polish with minor carnuba properties, and EP is a mild paint cleaner/wax with more carnuba. Is this right?



And Spruh, Autopia Car Care recommends it as a topper for Glanz????



What I am looking for is a deep wet look with great protection as I have a dark blue car. However, I would be willing to sacrifice the protection of GW and re-wax more often with carnuba products if I was able to achieve a deeper and wetter appearance...



Do Express and MP give a deeper shine without Glanz?



What if I initially UP, PP, MP, and GW....then when it's time for a bi-monthly re-wax, use EP followed by GW?

Assuming that I skip GW, would I be able to use MP or EP as my main protectant and possibly follow it with a carnuba topper?





I understand your comparison between GW and SG, I was just comparing the two in a matter of "steps"...both basically act as "sealants", correct?
 
ThreeSixT said:
Thanks again Mike. 1Z here I come. :xyxthumbs



What are the differnces between EP and MP? Why do some companies sell them together in a kit if that is the case? It sounds like MP is a polish/cleaner and not protective, and EP is a very mild cleaner with carnuba for protection. Is this right?
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First, Express Polish 500 ml has been discontinued and is only available in the 1L primarily because so many detailers love it and use it.



Express Polish has more carnauba and less percentage by volume of abrasives. Now, when I say abrasives, it's like the word polymer. Abrasives come in different sizes, densities, etc. So don't go thinking compound off the bat. Anyway, the amount of abrasives is slightly less than Metallic and so is the solvent level.



Metallic Polish/Wax (which replaced Metallic Polish and Express Polish--so much confusion which is why we combined them into one) contains white carnauba like Express but less and has a polymer wax in it. It's slightly more abrasive--maybe 2% by volume more abrasives than Express.



And Spruh, Autopia Car Care recommends it as a topper for Glanz????





So if I end with GW over MP or EP, it will last a while.
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More than a while. Like any carnauba, MP and EP only last 2 months at most. GW in itself lasts for months.



But with just using Express, can I do for a bi-monthly re-wax since it has carnuba? Or just use Spruh for that?
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Just Spruh. Think of Spruh as having the most carnauba--more so than Express and less solvent. But because there is still solvent in it, you will remove some of the GW layer. Not much, but some. So, technically you can apply it over. Our new detail spray will be a much better alternative than Spruh as far as spot/quick detailing. I just use Spruh as touch ups here and there.



What about the same for Metallic?



How well do Express and MP protect? Do Express and MP give a deeper shine without Glanz?
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that's very subjective. I really like the depth and gloss that both provide. I have entered car shows after just doing Express or Metallic and other shows with GW on top of either. Great response from either method.



I understand your comparison between GW and SG, I was just comparing the two in a matter of "steps"...both basically act as "sealants", correct?
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Well, I don't know how the word "sealant" has been modified in the online detailing community... normally sealants refer to acrylic based products. In that case, ours is simply a wax.



It's like the term "glaze"... online it seems to have taken on an entirely different meaning than the original technical term which means "silicone-free". Any silicone-free product is considered a glaze. Glazes are in turn created for paint and body shop environments.



Regards,
 
Wow, thanks. That clears up the confusion on MP vs EP, thank god. I think I will fair just fine with MP/Wax. BTW, I edited my original post with some revised questions, but you pretty much covered it.



Basically what I'm looking for is a deep wet look with great protection as I have a dark blue car. However, I would be willing to sacrifice the protection of GW and re-wax more often with carnuba products if I was able to achieve a deeper and wetter appearance.



So, after all of this and answering all of my questions, which products do you think I should go with, in order? I have already established UP, PP, MP...

I'm considering following with GW and using carnuba topper or Spruh for bi-monthy re-wax...or skipping GW and following MP/Wax with a carnuba topper or spruh and re-wax often.



Thanks again :bow
 
If it were me and I wanted to maintain every few months? I'd go with the UP, PP, and MP initially and then touch up with Spruh or MP every few months.



Tip on using Spruh: Spray directly on a cloth or foam pad or even a machine pad. The aerosol has a tendency to cause overspray.



Another tip regarding Spruh (and this is for everybody): let's say your cutting with a cutting compound with a machine (rotary or DA). After you cut, don't buff off the polish off the paintwork. Spray the pad with Spruh Wax and go over the same area. You'll get a nice deep gloss. :)



Regards,
 
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