Products and techniques for removing "road film"
- Thread starter superstring
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superstring
New member
Coatings=crack
Active member
Griots does not recommend using their foaming surface prep on a coating. Do you guys think PP boat and RV would be OK for a coating?
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Coleroad
New member
PP is like a 10ph. Are coatings good with high ph cleaners?
of course just the ph doesn`t tell the whole story. One also has to know capacity of the ph. Take coke and lemon juice. Both around the same ph, but very different capacity.
of course just the ph doesn`t tell the whole story. One also has to know capacity of the ph. Take coke and lemon juice. Both around the same ph, but very different capacity.
superstring
New member
When you say "capacity", are you referring to buffering capacity?
Chemistry 101: PH values are between 0-14, with distilled water being a value of 7, or neutral. Basic, or alkaline, is above or greater than 7. Most soaps are alkaline (or basic) by chemical nature. So when someone mentions that Power Clean Car and Boat Wash has a PH value of 10, that is pretty high alkalinity! Acids, on the other hand are below or less than 7. In car care cleaning chemicals, detailers use acidic cleaners such a mineral deposit removers or wheel (rim, if you are into semantics!) brake dust removers, or ferrous/iron speck decontaminators.
One easy way to tell the PH value of the detailing product you are using is to check the manufacturer`s Material Safety Data Sheet or MSDS.Every chemical manufacturer, foreign or domestic, is required by Occupational Safety and Heath Administration (OSHA) law to have one for the products they sell to the public or consumer in the United States. This sheet will tell you its PH value, what health or safety concerns it may pose to personally when using it, and what Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) you may need to use or wear in its use.
Two "chemicals" that a detailer should have in their arsenal of safety-related equipment on hand and easily accessable (IE near-by and within reach) are Baking Soda (sodium bi-carbonate) and White Vinegar (5% acetic acid), along with a gallon jug of distilled water or spray bottle filled with distilled water. Both of these can save a serious skin burn or even your eye-sight should a detailing chemical "accident" occur to neutralize an acid or alkaline on your person.
This public service safety reminder was brought to by Captain Obvious, who wants you to be safe while detailing. Back to the discussion on Traffic Road Film soap/cleaners...
One easy way to tell the PH value of the detailing product you are using is to check the manufacturer`s Material Safety Data Sheet or MSDS.Every chemical manufacturer, foreign or domestic, is required by Occupational Safety and Heath Administration (OSHA) law to have one for the products they sell to the public or consumer in the United States. This sheet will tell you its PH value, what health or safety concerns it may pose to personally when using it, and what Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) you may need to use or wear in its use.
Two "chemicals" that a detailer should have in their arsenal of safety-related equipment on hand and easily accessable (IE near-by and within reach) are Baking Soda (sodium bi-carbonate) and White Vinegar (5% acetic acid), along with a gallon jug of distilled water or spray bottle filled with distilled water. Both of these can save a serious skin burn or even your eye-sight should a detailing chemical "accident" occur to neutralize an acid or alkaline on your person.
This public service safety reminder was brought to by Captain Obvious, who wants you to be safe while detailing. Back to the discussion on Traffic Road Film soap/cleaners...
Coatings=crack
Active member
I would dilute 5 to 1 as mentioned above. Wouldn’t dilution lower PH value?
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Coleroad
New member
It is important to understand that pH is a measure of intensity, and not capacity; i.e., pH indicates the intensity of alkalinity in the same way temperature tells how hot something is, but not how much heat the substance carries. Other than the two pH extremes, the pH scale becomes secondary to the inherent properties of the specific chemical in terms of corrosiveness. As an example, the pH of carbonated cola soda (which contains phosphoric acid) is in the 2.5 range. A concentrated (35%) hydrogen peroxide solution has a pH of approximately 3.5. Carbonated cola soda may be slightly irritating to the eyes, causing no permanent damage. However, a 35% hydrogen peroxide solution will cause chemical burns to the skin or mucous membranes. Thus, it is not the pH factor alone that causes corrosion of surfaces products. Then add in ph of a substance changes with temperatures. I think ph tests are usually done at 25 degrees centigrade.
Dan
Well-known member
Turtle Wax Max Power might be an option for some, its under $5 for a nice sized bottle at Walmart. Its a high PH cleaner that comes in a very thin liquid that is sprayable even at full concentration.
Turtle Wax Max Power might be an option for some, its under $5 for a nice sized bottle at Walmart. Its a high PH cleaner that comes in a very thin liquid that is sprayable even at full concentration.
Dan:
Do you use this wash soap for maintenance 2-bucket wash (2BW) AND do you change the dilution ratio to the suggested stronger ratios for pre-correction or LSP application washers?
I ask because Armour-All had (past tense) a thick citrus-based wash that I bought about 12 years ago at Big Lots. I liked it so much I bought out their entire inventory stock and was sad that I could no longer find it (Hey, it was at a close-out store for a reason!). I just wondering if this a re-formulation of this product that somehow Turtle Wax "copied" (we call it Reverse Engineering in the mechanical design field) and is now selling. It`s inexpensive (cheap) and readily available over-the-counter (OTC). Its only disadvantage is the Turtle Wax name and its associated reputation as a second-rate car-cleaning chemical manufacturer. If it works, why not use it.
Hey some detailer within this forum uses L.A. Totally Awesome (LATA) from Dollar General for a Degreaser/APC for cleaning wheel wells ALL the time.
Just because care -care chemical does not have the detailing manufacturer pedigreed or cost an arm-and-a-leg doesn`t mean it may not be good!
Accumulator
Well-known member
Glad to see that
Good on you for posting it.
Bill D
Hooked For Life
I use LATA for all kinds of automotive cleaning including the wheel wells. I also use it quite a bit around the house. I’m quite pleased with it
Dan
Well-known member
I have used it as a bucket wash (I only do single bucket, sorry autopians!). It works well as a dirt cleaner, excellent for road film and bug/tar removal but it really lacks in lubricity compared to other premium washes. It is also very thin, so probably not the same as the AA stuff you liked. This stuff is as thin as Mr. Clean floor cleaner. I would not recommend it as a bucket wash soap.
Bill D
Hooked For Life
Yikes! That’s super thin! Maybe just use it around the house.
Dan
Well-known member
I use it as an APC and a pre-soak on filthy cars. Unlike using a regular car wash soap that literally does nothing on road film when shot from a foam canon or garden sprayer, this stuff seems to have some bite. Just don`t drag dirt around with it!
Bill D
Hooked For Life
Ah, let the chemical do the work.
superstring
New member
I think I may have found exactly what I`m looking for: Griot`s Foaming Surface Prep.
From the website:
"[FONT="]Foaming Surface Prep delivers a deep clean, prevents wash-induced scratches, and sets the stage for surface decontamination, defect removal, and paint protection. Foaming Surface Prep has a high pH blend of detergents and other advanced active ingredients that delivers an intense cleaning action that softens road film and organic contaminants, and leaves the surface free of waxes and sealants. So you`ll need to follow up by reapplying your wax or sealant basecoat. For tough, stuck-on dirt Foaming Surface Prep can be transformed into a powerful spray-on cleaner by diluting it in our Secondary Spray Bottle. At a 10:1 ratio, you can make quick work of grungy road slime, bird droppings, bug splats, and other stubborn stains."
Anyone have experience with this product?[/FONT]
From the website:
"[FONT="]Foaming Surface Prep delivers a deep clean, prevents wash-induced scratches, and sets the stage for surface decontamination, defect removal, and paint protection. Foaming Surface Prep has a high pH blend of detergents and other advanced active ingredients that delivers an intense cleaning action that softens road film and organic contaminants, and leaves the surface free of waxes and sealants. So you`ll need to follow up by reapplying your wax or sealant basecoat. For tough, stuck-on dirt Foaming Surface Prep can be transformed into a powerful spray-on cleaner by diluting it in our Secondary Spray Bottle. At a 10:1 ratio, you can make quick work of grungy road slime, bird droppings, bug splats, and other stubborn stains."
Anyone have experience with this product?[/FONT]
Coatings=crack
Active member
From what I’ve read and talking to Griots. This is to prep for polishing and re applying LSP. Griots even says it can degrade coatings. If your just looking to clean off road film it may be too strong
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superstring
New member
Hey Coatings=Crack
I totally understand what you`re saying, but I`m thinking it may not be possible to remove "road film" properly without removing waxes/sealants. I`m thinking more about the time when the car`s ready for the "full treatment" including clay, polishing and re-waxing.
I totally understand what you`re saying, but I`m thinking it may not be possible to remove "road film" properly without removing waxes/sealants. I`m thinking more about the time when the car`s ready for the "full treatment" including clay, polishing and re-waxing.