Ok first post. I hope its not to long! I have for several yrs done my own detailing and for friends. I have always tried to use Meg professional series products. I found your site and now a whole new world exist...thks I have always done the fine cut or body scrub, swirl free, then # 26. I have DA and a PC random orbital. I just bought new truck that is carbon metallic and want that really deep look. I used swirl free when I got it, and have been playin with what I can buy locally for now, which is Meg, Mothers, and 3m. I just used my 1st clay bar and love it. (Mothers) Until I order poorboys or Nattys to try I will what is on hand. Now my question... I just used Meg Polymer Sealant on truck to try, and followed up with Mothers carnuba, and played a little with Meg quick wax because I read it had a lot of carnuba in it. The question is... what catagory does polymer sealant fall into? Polish,wax, or other? and should I have done something prior to it and what can I put on top of it? I'm not sure exactly which step it falls into. Thks for listening and any suggestions you might have!
Polymer sealants
- Thread starter Grrumpy
- Start date
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Boss_429
Guest
Hey Grrumpy, welcome to DC.
First, you are already using some pretty darn good stuff there!
Anyhow, to try and answer your questions.................... a polymer sealant is nothing more than a synthetic wax (or protective coating) so to speak. It is the LSP (last step product) for your vehicle.
Depending on the sealant, most vendors have a particular process that they like you to follow to insure that the product works to it's maximum. Generally speaking, most polymers work best when applied to a surface that is clean and free of all oils, silicones, waxes........... Etc. Products in this category would be products like 4* UPP, Poorboy's EX-P, Zaino, Klasse and some others. Most of these product give you "some" layering capabilities.
Now, there are other synthetic waxes like NXT which have some light cleaning/polishing abilities. Because of that cleaning/polishing ability, those products really can't be layered. However, because of that lack of layering ability, many people put NXT and other similar products over any polish they wish, as durability isn't a concern............... they are going for "looks".
Many people top sealants (synthetic waxes) with a fine carnauba after a few coats of a sealant. Of course, they realize that in the case of products that have some layering ability, topping with carnauba will require a complete polishing/cleaning of the paint surface if they wish to switch back to the synthetic wax for durability.
First, you are already using some pretty darn good stuff there!
Anyhow, to try and answer your questions.................... a polymer sealant is nothing more than a synthetic wax (or protective coating) so to speak. It is the LSP (last step product) for your vehicle.
Depending on the sealant, most vendors have a particular process that they like you to follow to insure that the product works to it's maximum. Generally speaking, most polymers work best when applied to a surface that is clean and free of all oils, silicones, waxes........... Etc. Products in this category would be products like 4* UPP, Poorboy's EX-P, Zaino, Klasse and some others. Most of these product give you "some" layering capabilities.
Now, there are other synthetic waxes like NXT which have some light cleaning/polishing abilities. Because of that cleaning/polishing ability, those products really can't be layered. However, because of that lack of layering ability, many people put NXT and other similar products over any polish they wish, as durability isn't a concern............... they are going for "looks".
Many people top sealants (synthetic waxes) with a fine carnauba after a few coats of a sealant. Of course, they realize that in the case of products that have some layering ability, topping with carnauba will require a complete polishing/cleaning of the paint surface if they wish to switch back to the synthetic wax for durability.
So it sounds as though I should just stay with my regular routine and use swirl free, or good polish and top off with good carnuba and forget the polymers? I am more interested in a protective lasting job since my vehicle stays outside and most my days of summer are high 90's and over 100 deg. thks
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Boss_429
Guest
Grrumpy said:
Actually........ no! When it comes to protection, most good polymers will hold up better than most carnauba's in those kind of temperatures....... and under most other conditions.
Most polymers simply require a bit different prep to insure that extra protection.
kimwallace
New member
Boss_429 said:
WOW ... excellent answer!
I might add a couple additional thoughts. While NXT seems like it cannot be layered, it always looks better to me after applying a second coat 24 hours after the first one.
I don't know if you are layering more product or if you are just getting a more complete coverage.
Sealants also seem to offer longer protection than pure carnauba waxes. But, when you detail your car every month or so, it doesn't make much of a difference.
Welcome to DC ...
HondaMan
2004 Civic EX magnesium
Boss, you say:
However, because of that lack of layering ability, many people put NXT and other similar products over any polish they wish, as durability isn't a concern............... they are going for "looks".
What does NXT or similar products have that makes the "looks" thing necessitated by the polishing/mild abrasives in them? In other words, could NXT or similar products give a car "looks" without having the earlier layers scrubbed off? Or is the very nature of cleaning off the ealier/dead/worn layers what gives it the "looks" in the first place?
This is important to me as I did buy NXT Spray Wax and I will NOT be using it (except in emergencies or on other peoples cars) for me since I absolutely do NOT want to take off earlier layers.
Needless to say, I wouldn't have bought it if I had known that earlier and I am getting some QD and other stuff that has layering capacity.
However, because of that lack of layering ability, many people put NXT and other similar products over any polish they wish, as durability isn't a concern............... they are going for "looks".
What does NXT or similar products have that makes the "looks" thing necessitated by the polishing/mild abrasives in them? In other words, could NXT or similar products give a car "looks" without having the earlier layers scrubbed off? Or is the very nature of cleaning off the ealier/dead/worn layers what gives it the "looks" in the first place?
This is important to me as I did buy NXT Spray Wax and I will NOT be using it (except in emergencies or on other peoples cars) for me since I absolutely do NOT want to take off earlier layers.
Needless to say, I wouldn't have bought it if I had known that earlier and I am getting some QD and other stuff that has layering capacity.
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Boss_429
Guest
HondaMan,
Just a couple clarifications here. When I said "for looks", I meant this.............. if you are putting a polymer over top of a product that may contain oils, silicones, waxes, fillers, or whatever, you "must" be doing it for the added "looks" of the product underneath the NXT, as doing that will probably not do anything for durability/protection............ and in my opinion, will probably reduce the durability/protection of the LSP.
Next, keep in mind that I think NXT is a good product. However, it is not "layerable" in the sense that some other products are. Of course, Meguiar's does not build their LSP products with layerablity in mind........... they will be the first to tell you that. They build their LSP products with polishing/cleaning ability for a reason, and they have been very successful doing so. Sure, you can apply a couple of coats for complete coverage and a bit better look. Does an additional coat of NXT remove the entire layer of product(s) underneath it............ probably not. Will two coats look better than one.................... probably. After all, if the product contains specialized polishes.................. then you are "polishing/adding polish" again.
Yes, the nature of cleaning off dead/worn layers of product, and the removal of contaiminates does help give it the "looks"................ and that is part of Meguiar's philosopy.
Lastly, these "opinions" and "thoughts" are mine, and not necessarly those of the "management"! Therefore, they can not be held responsible for my "rambling"! :lmfao
Just a couple clarifications here. When I said "for looks", I meant this.............. if you are putting a polymer over top of a product that may contain oils, silicones, waxes, fillers, or whatever, you "must" be doing it for the added "looks" of the product underneath the NXT, as doing that will probably not do anything for durability/protection............ and in my opinion, will probably reduce the durability/protection of the LSP.
Next, keep in mind that I think NXT is a good product. However, it is not "layerable" in the sense that some other products are. Of course, Meguiar's does not build their LSP products with layerablity in mind........... they will be the first to tell you that. They build their LSP products with polishing/cleaning ability for a reason, and they have been very successful doing so. Sure, you can apply a couple of coats for complete coverage and a bit better look. Does an additional coat of NXT remove the entire layer of product(s) underneath it............ probably not. Will two coats look better than one.................... probably. After all, if the product contains specialized polishes.................. then you are "polishing/adding polish" again.
Yes, the nature of cleaning off dead/worn layers of product, and the removal of contaiminates does help give it the "looks"................ and that is part of Meguiar's philosopy.
Lastly, these "opinions" and "thoughts" are mine, and not necessarly those of the "management"! Therefore, they can not be held responsible for my "rambling"! :lmfao
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HondaMan
2004 Civic EX magnesium
thanks, Boss!
Thanks Boss
.....thats been quite a bit of information to consume since I have mostly only used used Meg products. I'm still a little confused with the lsp of Meg. Had I continued my normal routine to take take care of surface defects first, polish next, and finish with a wax for protection, and keep going back to polish, wax, polish wax, and so on, I could keep that cycle going correct? That would be considered layering, right? Now that I polished, and then polymered, then I am through....other than another coat of polymer. I cant go back and use anymore wax, or quickwax or anything on top to improve the depth of color? And now that it IS polymer and not wax....should I decide, what is the process to remove polymer and just wax if you would like to, or do you just use a wax remover to restart the process? As far as as the paint goes....arent we actually just dealing with clearcoat? Its not like the old days of enamel, or lacquer. Thanks for explaining it, I am able to get more information from those with hands on then a label on the back of a bottle.
.....thats been quite a bit of information to consume since I have mostly only used used Meg products. I'm still a little confused with the lsp of Meg. Had I continued my normal routine to take take care of surface defects first, polish next, and finish with a wax for protection, and keep going back to polish, wax, polish wax, and so on, I could keep that cycle going correct? That would be considered layering, right? Now that I polished, and then polymered, then I am through....other than another coat of polymer. I cant go back and use anymore wax, or quickwax or anything on top to improve the depth of color? And now that it IS polymer and not wax....should I decide, what is the process to remove polymer and just wax if you would like to, or do you just use a wax remover to restart the process? As far as as the paint goes....arent we actually just dealing with clearcoat? Its not like the old days of enamel, or lacquer. Thanks for explaining it, I am able to get more information from those with hands on then a label on the back of a bottle.
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Boss_429
Guest
Grumpy,
That is correct, we are dealing with the clear coat layer. However, it's not that much different than the old days with single stage paint............ you still want to clean, polish and protect.
The term layering is in reference to multiple coats of the LSP's (last step product - a wax, or polymer, or combination of both). The paint cleaning/polishing steps are not considered layering. However, they are necessary for the best paint finish, and you don't have to, and shouldn't "cycle" back through them................. at least until the paint needs cleaning/polishing again.
Here are some general thoughts that may answer the rest of your questions:
A polymer is nothing more than a "synthetic wax".
Most waxes (synthetic or natural) can be removed with a light polish or paint cleaner.
You can "top" synthetic waxes with natural waxes, but you don't have too.
Once you start putting natural waxes (or quick waxes, or QD with silicones in them) over synthetic waxes, it is recommended that you remove "everthing" with a polish or paint cleaner, if you want to go back to layering the synthetic wax.
Keep in mind that a polymer wax is supposed to be more durable, and provide more protection. Therefore these "thoughts" about topping/maintaining a synthetic wax are simply to take advantage of those characteristics. Many of us here break some, or all of those rules with no ill affects.
Hope this helps.
That is correct, we are dealing with the clear coat layer. However, it's not that much different than the old days with single stage paint............ you still want to clean, polish and protect.
The term layering is in reference to multiple coats of the LSP's (last step product - a wax, or polymer, or combination of both). The paint cleaning/polishing steps are not considered layering. However, they are necessary for the best paint finish, and you don't have to, and shouldn't "cycle" back through them................. at least until the paint needs cleaning/polishing again.
Here are some general thoughts that may answer the rest of your questions:
A polymer is nothing more than a "synthetic wax".
Most waxes (synthetic or natural) can be removed with a light polish or paint cleaner.
You can "top" synthetic waxes with natural waxes, but you don't have too.
Once you start putting natural waxes (or quick waxes, or QD with silicones in them) over synthetic waxes, it is recommended that you remove "everthing" with a polish or paint cleaner, if you want to go back to layering the synthetic wax.
Keep in mind that a polymer wax is supposed to be more durable, and provide more protection. Therefore these "thoughts" about topping/maintaining a synthetic wax are simply to take advantage of those characteristics. Many of us here break some, or all of those rules with no ill affects.
Hope this helps.
HondaMan
2004 Civic EX magnesium
Great info, Boss...thanks...I was considering anything I put on after washing the car part of the "layering" process. Now I'm straight.