Polymer or Carnauba

Carnauba or Polymer for deepest,wetest, showcar shine on black?

  • Carnauba

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Polymer (ie: Zaino)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Acrylic (ie: Klasse)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Carnauba topped over Acrylic

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
I

Intercooled

New member
I've been reading on here and asking some questions about using carnauba as a topper. My car( black Grand national) is mainly a show car and sunday driver, always garaged and under cover. I currently have Zaino on it. I like the high gloss look and slick surface. But through my readings and research on here I've been seeing alot of using Carnauba over an acrylic system (Klasse) or like polishes. I'm looking for the wetest,deepest, most "passionate' appearence. A real looker and show winner!!

I assume that its all in ones opinion and perception of what looks best. Some of you guys have alot of experience with different approaches and techniques and I'm looking for a majority consensus of which way to go. I'm not too concerned about durability because the car isn't out too much. Applying product more often woudn't bother me as I enjoy working on my car anyhow.
 
That is really tough to answer, because it does depend on individual tastes. You will need to observe the characteristics of both medium, and most importantly, compare both finishes yourself to determine which one brings the best results.



I've used carnauba based products for a long time, and I experimented with a polymer. I have also witnessed good results with other finishes that have been prepared with polymers. For me, a pure carnauba will bring the most intense and dramatic results if applied right. It has to be put on and buffed off with care. The best results will come from slowly applied "layers" that have been properly applied, stretched (buffed), and given adequate time to dry a little.
 
Why no Carnauba over Polymer? Seems a lot of people here top Zaino with carnauba as well. I am in the process right now of giving the Mustang the Klasse twins treatment and once I see how it comes out I am contemplating topping it with #16. I have done the same with Zaino in the past. For me there is nothing like the deep wet look of a carnauba wax.
 
I have read that Carnauba and a polymer are not a good mix. The petroleum disillates in the Carnauba will work at a polymer and wont bond properly, infact the the petroleum in the Carnauba could remove the polymer sealant and your protection be lost. And I would then assume you wouldn't have the optimum shine!
 
That isnt really true for most polymers.



Ive used Tropicare, PoorBoys EX, Klasse AIO and SG and a couple of others and topped them with carnaubas and it's worked out great. I do think you need to let the polymer resin based sealants cure for 24 hours or so before you top them but other than that, it should be fine.



Now, you dont want to go the other way and try to top a carnauba with a polymer. That would be bad news.
 
Also, the differences between the two will hinder the sharpness of the resolution that a carnauba is capable of obtaining. You may get shine, but you could also give up clarity and depth of finish.
 
If you want ultimate depth of gloss and a wet looking appearance, use a pure polish then top with a carnuaba paste wax.



The thing about polymer sealants are they're the ultimate product for protecting finishes but you trade gloss for protection.



New cars will benefit the greatest from polymer sealants because they're already at optimal gloss -- just need to preserve the finish.



One product I use that works great for an all around approach is 3M's Marine Ultra Performance Paste Wax. Reason for using marine-grade is for the "acrylic like" carnuaba & polymer combo. This formula is meant for ultimate protection on boats from the UV rays and salt water -- and gives a great gloss as well. Obviously, it doesn't have any cleaning/polishing properties.
 
PrecisionOnline said:
New cars will benefit the greatest from polymer sealants because they're already at optimal gloss -- just need to preserve the finish.
Click to expand...





Bingo!!! :bow :bow :bow :bow



That is what I have been preaching for years. Prep that surface to the optimal appearance clues and a sealant will reward you have that ultimate natural shine, wetness and clarity.



If you are unable to reach this pinnacle by prepping, experimenting with a combination of both will sometimes achieve the goal. The Klasse twins with a carnauba topper seems to be the best way to mask and augment these types of finishes.



If this is for a showcar and one that is not drive very often and never in bad weather the most "liquid" short term shine will be obtained with a pure glaze over the protectant keeping in mind that if applying directly over a sealant will probably dissolve the sealant and no protection will be in place.
 
Quote: The petroleum disillates in the Carnauba will work at a polymer and wont bond properly, infact the the petroleum in the Carnauba could remove the polymer sealant and your protection be lost.



~ One man’s opinion / observations ~



Not all solvents are petroleum distillate based, and although most Carnauba waxes use a solvent to ‘cut’ them, some use oils

Most polymers use a solvent as a carrier system (it also helps as a lubricant to help the polymer to spread)

From a recent post (Detailking) its the presence of oil that compromises polymer durability, strength etc.



Like many I use a polymer (Klasse or Zanio) and ‘top’ it with a Canauba (Pinnacle Souverän ) wax



~Hope this helps~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
 
Is Klasse a Polymer or an Acrylic? Seems like I see mixed info on that. Also, what is a pure polish (example of a product and/or explanation of what makes it one)?
 
A pure polish contains mild abrashives which clean the paint to optimal gloss and contains no fillers. Fillers last for several washes then will show the old blemishes. The pure polish will level and remove swirls and add much gloss. Good examples of a pure polish are:



Auto Magic's "Swirl Remover" (all swirl removers are polishes)

or actually stay away from products named "glaze" if your looking for a pure polish. However, glazes (no silicones) are great for filling and for use after paint refinishing.



I'm not sure what Klasse is -- never used it myself.
 
Quote: Is Klasse a Polymer or an Acrylic?



~ One man’s opinion / observations ~



Q: Is Klasse a Polymer or an Acrylic?

A: Yes, Klasse All-In-One Polish is an acrylic polymer resin (confused yet?)



~Hope this helps~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
 
Carnauba's a polymer, acrylic's a polymer, sealants are a polymer, wouldn't you like to be a polymer too! Sorry that tune just popped into my head. I miss Mr. Rogers.



Any way to get technical a polymer is simply a bunch of molecules stuck together. That's pretty broad and not that meaningful to this discussion but nonetheless important to keep in mind when you see products marketed to you. Also keep in mind that, unless you are the formulator, you don't know what products contain or do not contain silicones. I've seen a few who claim not to have them actually have them.



With regard to polymer system, oils, silicones and petroleum distillates. Polymer systems need something to disperse them otherwise they won't work. Oils, silicones and petroleum distillates are dispersal mechanisms.



Bonding, the bonding problems talked about all the time really throw me for a loop. I've tried most of the combinations with the latest being Zaino over and under a number of different non cleaner carnaubas with no problem at all. The characteristics of each product stands out but I have not seen any bonding problems even after a number of weeks. It would be great to get an explaination of what the bonding problem looks like since I have not experienced them with the products mentioned in these postings.



How about a combo you guys know does not work together, I'd like to try to recreate your problems.
 
I love carnaubas. The best ones are drop dead sexy. They look super when they are just freshy dolled up and ready for the show. Yea baby! But the morning (or the month) after, they tend to lose their appeal. The shine is fading, the glitter is gone and things are sagging at the edges. It's just too much maintenance to keep them lively.



I want something that looks beautiful all the time and is gorgeous every day of the week even without a lot of primping and prodding. I want something low maintenance that pays big dividends.



I choose Zaino.



I also chose my wife with the same criteria. :xyxthumbs
 
Zaino topped with any good (100% pure) carnauba cannot be beat for durability, slickness, depth and warmth; you get everything!
 
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