Polishing: The missing ispropyl alcohol step...

H

HappyWax

New member
Can someone explain the isopropyl alcohol step (What it entails and where it falls) in the polishing process? Is this an old school technique that I missed the meeting on?
 
Supposedly, it helps remove any polishing oils from the paint surface. If you don't use it, it's possible that those oils could produce a 'filling' effect and actually mask defects. To the naked eye, it would appear that the defects have been removed.



It helps to show the true paint surface rather than mask the defects. So if you use it after a polishing step, you will know for sure whether you have removed all of the defects, or if you should do another polishing pass.



Some of the die-hards here will tell you its absolutely 100% necessary. And if I were a professional hired to fully correct paint for a paying customer, I would agree. But for a weekend warrior like me, who only has time for one polishing pass no matter what, I don't really mind being helped out with a few fillers. Just because I don't have time to make my paint perfect, doesn't mean it can't *look* perfect.
 
We also often use it right after the last polishing step, before the LSP application, to make sure the LSP is bonding to the paint and not the oils in the polishes.
 
Hi!



Most polishes are carried in an oil. Once polishing has finished and the abbrasive has broken down you are left with some oils on the car surface.



These oils can fill imperfections (that you are try to remove) so people remove the oils using an IPA (Ispropyl alchol) wipe down.



Some people go from polishing to a sealant like Zaino (Z5/Z2) which requires an oil free surface. Again an IPA wipe down is carried out to clean the surface.



You can also go get a Menzerna product that is the same kinda thing called Top Inspection.



Geoff
 
I can't believe more people haven't commented on this. I feel the same way about using IPA or similar cleaners.



Kevin Brown said:
Yay! It posted... TWICE! :spot



I won't speak for Jason here, but we had a discussion related to paint swelling.

I asked if he could give his opinion on the subject of IPA wipe downs.

More specifically, I asked if he preferred to use a glass cleaner that contains alcohol, or if he preferred to use straight alcohol.



Personally, I have always used glass cleaner.

I usually run it on the rich side when I use the bulk stuff (such as the Meguiar's Detailer® Glass Cleaner).



Jason mentioned that alcohol (when used in a strong concentration) would DEFINITELY have a swelling effect on a majority of paint types.

In addition, he opined that using very strong concentrations of IPA is overkill, and may be detrimental to many paint types.



Same goes for other wipe down chemicals (wax & grease removers, naptha, etc.)

In the old days, I used to wash the car thoroughly between every buffing step.

The reason was to remove all the abrasive residue stuck between the panels and sprayed all over the rest of the car.

I used a bottle of diluted car wash to presoak the accumulated goop, then pressure washed the vehicle, washed it with a mitt, and rinsed again (always used deionized water too, so that helped clean things ever further).



Maybe that was the best thing to do after all. :wow:
Click to expand...
 
A swelling effect would be that the solvent (alcohol) would actually leech into the paint itself and in essence the paint would swell or expand because of the interaction with the solvent.



On the other hand, I've don't think I've ever read another post about how using a solvent wipe down after polishing steps has ever caused any kind of long term paint problems.
 
It only has a swelling effect with certain polishes that have silicones in them or if there is silicone trapped deep within the paint.



I would be more worried with Prepsol on these new modern paints.
 
If only we had another thread exactly like this one...:think2



Anyways, I think that the whole "swelling" thing is overblown. Here's my reasoning, and feel free to call me an idiot:



If ISP causes swelling, how does one explain the fact the defects often "reappear" after an ISP wipedown? If the paint was indeed swelling, wouldn't the defects actually be *less* visible? Maybe I'm just looking at this the wrong way. Plus, the ISP evaporates almost immediately upon hitting the surface. There's barely enough time to remove the oils, much less swell the clear.
 
I'm not a chemist, but I'm inclined to agree with Bostonsfavson.



Paint can survive through acid rain, pollution, and dirt particles flying into it at highway speeds. It's hard to believe that something as mild as diluted rubbing alcohol could seriously comprimise the physical structure of automotive paint.



No one seems to mention "swelling" when paint is exposed to extended periods of direct sunlight, or the intense heat of a mechanical buffer. Yet we're concerned over a split-second spritz of rubbing alcohol?



I'm also skeptical of this whole "LSP not bonding to polishing oils" business. There are plenty of polishes and glazes that are not shy about their filling properties (Megs #9 and #7 come to mind), yet it's perfectly acceptable to apply wax over those products.



I would like to hear from an accomplished, knowledgeable, chemical engineer on the above questions. All of this stuff can be tested, and analyzed on a microscopic level. So far, all I've ever seen is speculation and conjecture based on what some people see or *think* they see with their naked eyes.
 
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...



I think there's way too much hype about the whole IPA wipedown thing, really. And too much voodoo science. I only know what my eyes tell me, and no amount of talk about shrinkage, plasticity, elasticity, or anything else is gonna change that.



And my eyes tell me that pretty much every polish I've ever used fills/conceals defects to a certain degree. For some, that's a bonus; they don't want to have to do yet another polishing step. For others, it's a PITA, because they want to truly see what's left in the paint so they can truly correct it.



It's really just a personal preference. If you want to have the concealing effect, don't do an IPA wipedown. If you don't, do. If you're concerned that your LSP might suffer from residual polishing oils, do it. It should really be that easy. All this talk about superfluous things like shrinkage, etc just unnecessarily clouds the water.
 
I agree. I detail my own car so I know it does not have scratches. The LSP I use looks good with the oils left behind. In face I might add #7 or RMG prior to the LSP.



SuperBee364 said:
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...



I think there's way to much hype about the whole IPA wipedown thing, really. And too much voodoo science. I only know what my eyes tell me, and no amount of talk about shrinkage, plasticity, elasticity, or anything else is gonna change that.



And my eyes tell me that pretty much every polish I've ever used fills/conceals defects to a certain degree. For some, that's a bonus; they don't want to have to do yet another polishing step. For others, it's a PITA, because they want to truly see what's left in the paint so they can truly correct it.



It's really just a personal preference. If you want to have the concealing effect, don't do an IPA wipedown. If you don't, do. If you're concerned that your LSP might suffer from residual polishing oils, do it. It should really be that easy. All this talk about superfluous things like shrinkage, etc just unnecessarily clouds the water.
Click to expand...
 
SuperBee364 said:
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...



I think there's way to much hype about the whole IPA wipedown thing, really. And too much voodoo science. I only know what my eyes tell me, and no amount of talk about shrinkage, plasticity, elasticity, or anything else is gonna change that.



And my eyes tell me that pretty much every polish I've ever used fills/conceals defects to a certain degree. For some, that's a bonus; they don't want to have to do yet another polishing step. For others, it's a PITA, because they want to truly see what's left in the paint so they can truly correct it.



It's really just a personal preference. If you want to have the concealing effect, don't do an IPA wipedown. If you don't, do. If you're concerned that your LSP might suffer from residual polishing oils, do it. It should really be that easy. All this talk about superfluous things like shrinkage, etc just unnecessarily clouds the water.
Click to expand...



Great post!!!!!!
 
Great post, Supe!!



One of your best to date!



SuperBee364 said:
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...



I think there's way to much hype about the whole IPA wipedown thing, really. And too much voodoo science. I only know what my eyes tell me, and no amount of talk about shrinkage, plasticity, elasticity, or anything else is gonna change that.



And my eyes tell me that pretty much every polish I've ever used fills/conceals defects to a certain degree. For some, that's a bonus; they don't want to have to do yet another polishing step. For others, it's a PITA, because they want to truly see what's left in the paint so they can truly correct it.



It's really just a personal preference. If you want to have the concealing effect, don't do an IPA wipedown. If you don't, do. If you're concerned that your LSP might suffer from residual polishing oils, do it. It should really be that easy. All this talk about superfluous things like shrinkage, etc just unnecessarily clouds the water.
Click to expand...
 
If your paint is true, clean, and clear of all silicones and fillers, IPA will not do any swelling at all. If you are getting swelling after compounding/polishing, then there is something in the polish/compound causing this.
 
Great responses! If swelling indeed occurs from wipe down chemicals (Prep-Sol / wax & grease removers), then how the heck can every painter not get comebacks after they paint over existing "swelled" paint with new paint? Sounds like a recipe for shrinkage whether the finish is baked or not. They are literally shooting paint minutes after wiping them down with solvents. Also keep in mind that the paint is sanded prior to application and the finish is even more tacky then ever. Please, someone explain this.........
 
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