Polishing breakdown question.

C

Changeling

New member
When you are polishing (by machine) a section of a vehicle (normal swirls and oxidation) and the polish starts to "dry out" before you feel the clear coat has been worked enough what do you do:



1. Wipe down the area and go back over the area with more polish and machine buffing.



2. Spritz the area with a soap solution and keep machine polishing.



3. In a normal clear coat with some oxidation and swirl, using a PC or Cyclo, how long does it take roughly to finish polish prepping a door for instance. I do realize this is a difficult question do to varying degrees of condition. It does not include applying the LSP.



Changeling
 
Removing the oxidation would require more effort than normal swirls. I'm not even sure a PC has enough ummphh to do it but I guess I could with the right polish.



Your right in not wanting to work the material while it's dry, but you also want to work it till it's "flashed" or "broken down". Getting that timing is key and will vary from polish to polish..



But yes your right, you will need to wipe the panel down and hit it again with fresh product if you don't get the results you want the first time out. Some refer to this as "passes".



Usually for all but the most minor of marring you'll need a few passes to get things right.



As for the time issue, your right again that it's relative. Factors to consider are the material /product being used, machine type (rotaries work faster than PC's), and the skill level of the person doing the work among other things.



I will say this, if you've hit 3 or 4 passes and still have the same marring you started out with then something isn't right. One is either not working the product sufficiently into the panel, not using the right product/pad combination for the task, or their whole process is off.



Be more concerned with getting it right than how long it takes to do so. Once you have the former mastered you'll be able to cut down your time.



MorBiD
 
Changeling- I can't really answer the "how long" Q and anyhow, I seem to take a lot longer to do *anything* than most people. Using just the PC/Cyclo for correction (and I mean minor stuff that only shows in certain lighting) will maybe take me a minumum of half an hour per panel using just the PC (4") or Cyclo. If it's more serious correction (say, a "normal person's" car) I'd have to break out the rotary or else it'd might take well over an hour per panel. But those are just *wild* guesses as I honestly never pay attention to the clock when I'm doing this stuff..but it does take *me* a very long time. Might take five minutes just to *inspect* a silver panel to make sure I didn't miss something that'll only show in weird lighting and I might have to do that inspection many times. Heh heh, the last time I fixed a RIDS on my S8 it took me nearly an hour (yeah, I should've got out the rotary) but a lot of that was spent inspecting.



MorBid got it right...my process is off whenever I try to do anything significant without using the rotary ;) But on the M3 (fairly typical condition) I'm doing many, many passes with the rotary/cutting pad/H-T EC. Maybe I oughta be using wool (or wetsanding) but the combo I'm using is mighty aggressive and it just takes a lot of passes to cut off enough clear to get it looking decent. I did many passes with a similar combo on my wife's A8 and barely touched the etching (that was before deciding to live with it.. and then having to do more work to remove the micromarring from those aggressive passes). This stuff can take forever if the clear is hard!



There are people here who can do miraculous work with just a few passes- hardly any time at all to do amazing work. But there aren't *many* people like that ;) There are a lot more people who spend eight hours working on a car and then deciding to live with the results even though it's far from perfect. When you're starting out, expect to spend a whole day. I like to split the work up over more than one day if it's a big job lest I get careless after the first however-many hours. No, I'd never cut it as a pro ;)



Buffing off product between passes: Most products oughta have the residue wiped off between passes. Sometimes I don't bother if a) I'll be doing a lot more aggressive work and b) the residue is minimal. I've used a certain product by rotary, left the residue on, and then done the exact same product by Cyclo- worked well (this was when the rotary would do almost all the correction and the Cyclo then cleaned up the rotary swirls). But most often it oughta be cleaned off. I spray the area with #34 and then wipe it off with a soft plush MF. No need for the #34 if you're still gonna do a lot of aggressive work, but it can cut down on micromarring (from product residue removal) when you're working with an already-pretty-nice finish.
 
Excellent dialog on this topic!





The statement below, I think, is very typical of the weekend hobbiest, or at least it describes me pretty well.



Accumulator said:
...There are a lot more people who spend eight hours working on a car and then deciding to live with the results even though it's far from perfect...
Click to expand...



I have all the pads, polishes, etc, but can't seem to ever really get the surface as good as I'd like and settle for a few remaining imperfections. For me, this is where a good sealant with hidding ability (such as Z5Pro) or a glaze may be of value to 'take care of the rest' for me.
 
I am a beginner. Last time I did my ss red hood, with probably not the best process (but I did get results), using 4" orange pad, PC, #80, 2 x 2 area at a time, took 4 hours. I did have to go over some 2 x 2 areas twice or three times but not all of the. I did end up with an almost perfect hood with a few very deep scratches that I wanted to leave alone to preserve the paint. If I was to do it again, I would use OC, 4" orange pad, then followup with #80 on 4" green pad. I might save 1 hour that way and have a lot less tired arms given I don't have to use as much pressure with the OC to get it to cut, my recent experience with it tells me.
 
First off I'm not looking to save any time whatsoever. I needed to ask the question (time) because of a medical condition. If it take a normal guy 1 hour, I allot myself 2 hours, I just don 't have any way around this unfortunately.

The one thing that totally shocked me was what Morbid said about oxidation taking more effort than normal swirls, I thought that was a simple fix because it is never discussed.

My paint is actually not in real bad shape except for the oxidation, which I perceive as heavier than normal because the truck is kept outside and is black. I think Ill post a new question pertaining to this only!



I am starting to see what is going on and how to approach the different problems somewhat. Obviously there is nothing better than experience, but I have to cut this problem down as much as I can because of health. That is the reason for all the questions that might seem crazy to some, but not me, I don't have a choice.

Thanks to all for the great information, it has helped more than you know!



Changeling
 
if oxidation is your problem

I like to start with AIO on a MF or terry if needed

the strong chemical cleaner will eat up the oxidation and save you some time
 
BigJimZ28 said:
if oxidation is your problem

I like to start with AIO on a MF or terry if needed

the strong chemical cleaner will eat up the oxidation and save you some time
Click to expand...



BigJim, do you mean using the AIO (I have it) before I start using any polishing compound/polish? I am confused can you please explain?



Changeling
 
Changeling said:
BigJim, do you mean using the AIO (I have it) before I start using any polishing compound/polish? I am confused can you please explain?



Changeling
Click to expand...

yes I find it is easier on me and my pads if I remove most/all of the oxidation

with AIO first then polish
 
I wonder if Meg's reformulated #2 has the same strong chemical cleaners that the old version had :confused: That stuff was great on oxidation, at least on single stage back in the day...the chemical cleaners were so strong you had to be careful about squeezing a line out on the paint (as opposed to putting it on the pad) as it could leave a mark where it "cleaned" things more than you wanted!
 
BigJimZ28 said:
yes I find it is easier on me and my pads if I remove most/all of the oxidation

with AIO first then polish
Click to expand...



So, you wash, clay, then do the trick with AIO.



Do you apply the AIO normally or give it more time, what? Can I go right into the compounding/polishing routine after "what amount of time" with the AIO on the clear coat?



I guess/think that you are chemically removing the oxidation.



This step is totally new to me.



Changeling
 
why would you wait?.. anything that is there will be removed with your compounding/polishing routine





yea I like it because oxidation is very hard on my pads and

this helps save them



have you used your cyclo yet?
 
BigJimZ28 said:
why would you wait?.. anything that is there will be removed with your compounding/polishing routine



I am waiting because you implied that AIO would remove the oxidation sir, I assume by chemical action, rather than compounding my self to death trying to remove the oxidation when my paint is not in really bad shape except for the oxidation.







yea I like it because oxidation is very hard on my pads and

this helps save them







have you used your cyclo yet?
Click to expand...



No sir, I haven't used the cyclo yet. I want to have everything on hand that I could possibly need before I start detailing. That includes Knowledge and products.

Thanks for your help.

Changeling
 
well someone's health is always of concern so I'll throw this into the mix.



There is nothing wrong with just walking away from a detailing session. I do it all the time (if it's my car).



Just clean up the panels and throw some protection on there amd leave it for another time. It'll probaly bother you more than anyone who sees it. Unless that other person is an Autopian :)
 
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