paint correction and protection questions

PearTree- I have limited experience with BlackFire as I didn`t care for it too much. Their sealant did a "darkening" thing that I didn`t care for and didn`t offer the protection/durability I want. Their Polish wasn`t bad if you like that kind of stuff and plenty of people do (IIRC it`s a variation on the Menzerna 106 line, which I DO *NOT* like). I`d be sure to get all the polishing oils off; I don`t *think* they`d mess with the FK1000P but as they dissipate you might find that marring you thought you`d corrected "comes back".

You might try the coating on your wheels, IMO that`s a good, not-so-critical application where a little oops! won`t show and coating wheels sure does make them easy to live with as the brakedust/etc. just washes right off for years at a time (at least IME) whereas the FK1000P needs redone now and then.

GearHead1- I still can`t figure out what`s up with your FK1000P user-friendliness issues, but I guess I`m just, uhm...different..as I honestly can`t recall *any* LSP ever being hard to use unless I did something wrong (isn`t *that* something?!? Lucky me!).

I *REALLY* can`t figure out why it doesn`t last longer for you, but IIRC that makes two people here who`ve had it work out that way so I guess !YMMV! always applies.

I`ll agree about the look not being right for every person/vehicle, though I just noticed again today how much I`ve come to like it on the `93 Audi (dark blue, a color it "oughta look lousy on", again, lucky me). Anyhoo..I certainly give you credit for having given it a shot!
 
GearHead_1 said:
I know others here really dig FK1000. I`ve used it quite a bit over the years and honestly I just can`t make myself like it. Don`t get me wrong there are a lot of products out there that are behind it on the food chain. It`s solid product but just not my solid product. I still have two tins in the cupboard. I don`t like the smell for starters and even with micro-thin coats I find it a little more difficult to use than modern paste waxes, I don`t find it to last as long as many claim and lastly I don`t find the look to be quite what I`m after. This said, it`s probably all me and the way I`m using it or just my expectations. I did however use it about a month on my daughters car, she was having trouble with tree droppings, she parks under covered parking but still gets it blowing in from the open sides. For all the things I don`t like about it, it does seem to do a good job given this situation.

If I were going to make a recommendation for a last step product to you and I guess I am, it would be to look at BlackFire`s Crystal Seal. It won`t last you a year as some would have you believe but it will give me several months of really nice looking protection that beads extremely well. It`s cost is very reasonable and it takes all of 20 minutes to apply it couldn`t be any easier to put on. It`s gotta be just about stupid simple to use. Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Comparing the blackfire to the fk1000p, how much difference is the longevity? I`ve read the fk1000p threads and it seems it lasts a good six months, so I was curious how long the blackfire would last? I know most would just suggest a coating but I would like to try a wax first to get comfortable before I start applying semi permament coatings on the paint.
 
PearTree said:
Thanks for the reply. Comparing the blackfire to the fk1000p, how much difference is the longevity? I`ve read the fk1000p threads and it seems it lasts a good six months, so I was curious how long the blackfire would last? I know most would just suggest a coating but I would like to try a wax first to get comfortable before I start applying semi permament coatings on the paint.
Click to expand...
See what GearHead1 says so you can compare two extremely different viewpoints/experiences....IME there simply *IS* no comparison and when it comes to etching resistance the diff is even more dramatic.

I`m not saying how long FK1000P lasts for me since my vehicles are garaged and, well...I gather they`re more pampered that most. But FWIW I seldom *need* to reapply it even annually, though I often do that anyhow just to stay ahead of the curve. Heh heh, actually, I guess I *CAN`T* say how long it lasts for me as I`ve never let anything go so long that FK1000P truly died...although it`s usually getting close to dead on my wheels by the time I do the annual switch to snows (still lasts longer than anything else I`ve used other than a coating, closest rival was Klasse Sealant Glaze X 6 layers).
 
GearHead_1 said:
I know others here really dig FK1000. I`ve used it quite a bit over the years and honestly I just can`t make myself like it. Don`t get me wrong there are a lot of products out there that are behind it on the food chain. It`s solid product but just not my solid product. I still have two tins in the cupboard. I don`t like the smell for starters and even with micro-thin coats I find it a little more difficult to use than modern paste waxes, I don`t find it to last as long as many claim and lastly I don`t find the look to be quite what I`m after. This said, it`s probably all me and the way I`m using it or just my expectations. I did however use it about a month on my daughters car, she was having trouble with tree droppings, she parks under covered parking but still gets it blowing in from the open sides. For all the things I don`t like about it, it does seem to do a good job given this situation.

If I were going to make a recommendation for a last step product to you and I guess I am, it would be to look at BlackFire`s Crystal Seal. It won`t last you a year as some would have you believe but it will give me several months of really nice looking protection that beads extremely well. It`s cost is very reasonable and it takes all of 20 minutes to apply it couldn`t be any easier to put on. It`s gotta be just about stupid simple to use. Just my two cents.
Click to expand...

You are not the only one who feels this way about FK1000. I didn`t really care for it when I used it.
 
The Guz- Very curious about why you didn`t care for it! No, no...absolutely *NOT* looking to argue, genuinely interested in opinions/experiences from the other side of that fence :D The more differing views we present, the better informed others will be about what they might want to try, or not. Heh heh, just look at the products that I don`t care for... that everybody else loves :o
 
GearHead1- I still can`t figure out what`s up with your FK1000P user-friendliness issues, but I guess I`m just, uhm...different..as I honestly can`t recall *any* LSP ever being hard to use unless I did something wrong (isn`t *that* something?!? Lucky me!).
Click to expand...

I guess the user-friendliness issues are in my mind more of a relative issue comparing one product to others on the market. It`s not a break your back type of difficult. I`ve said this before but sometimes how hard a product is to use is really more of a consideration of how long it will take to use it. Certainly over the past decade detailing products in general have become easier to use or at least in my mind they seem to be. Many tend to smell better too. This said, FK1000 is still in the paste wax theater of products and I honestly believe it to require more effort to use than products like Poorboys or Pinnacle (I like both of these) paste waxes to use. I`m not suggesting that it is as hard to use as the waxes of the 70`s or 80`s as I suspect even the difficulties with these waxes was more of a technique issue than product problem. It`s just not as easy as others that I consider to be in the same arena. I simply find other products both easier to use and with a look that I prefer. Spray on or wipe on and walk away products are just so easy to use.

You and I both know that looks are very subjective and unless you`re looking at two products side by side it can be tough to tell which you like more. When it comes to longevity, admittedly, I don`t honestly know or for the most part don`t really care how long most products last. I`ve watched FK1000 hold on or hang it up (which ever way you decide to say it) pretty much in line with other sealants I`ve used. A couple to several months would be a very long time for me to leave a product on a vehicle without trying something new either in it`s place or on top of it. It`s fair to say that longevity isn`t my primary consideration.

At the end of this conversation neither of us will have swayed the other even a little bit. Like Mike says, once you find a product you like, use it often. To the OP, the only way you`ll ever know which products you like better is to give several a shot. There are more than enough products out there to satisfy every users needs.
 
Here is where I am at after all the advice given in this thread and further reading on the forums.

1. Purchase griots gg6 kit with 5 inch backing plate and pads: Griot
2. Purchase 6 pack of griots boss 5.5 inch pads: 2 white, 3 yellow, and 1 microfiber: Griots Garage 5.5 inch BOSS Foam and Microfiber Pads - 6 Pack
3. Purchase hd cut + and polish + combo 8 ounce kit: HD Cut+ and Polish+ Combo 8 oz.
4. Purchase fk1000p and yellow foam applicator pads
5. Pad cleaner and pad cleaning brush

Thoughts from the far more knowledgeable on this forum as a good starter kit? With the 15% off sale going on right now that will apply to the entire order.
 
PearTree- IMO you oughta skip the Pad Cleaning Brush. I`ve *never* found one that was worth using with polishers like the GG6 (different story with a rotary...sometimes). I`d find some other way to clean out the pads, because if there`s so much cut-off clear and dried-out product in a pad for the brush to do anything then IMO you oughta clean it out properly (or, really...just get out a clean one and clean all your pads later). Also, and related, *I* would need more pads than that, even if only doing a few panels at a time...but maybe that`s just me as I`ve learned I need to be an absolute fanatic about clean pads. I hope the HD Cut+ works OK for you and isn`t too mild. OTHERWISE...yes indeed, that sounds good and I commend you on doing your research before spending your money.

Gearhead1- I appreciate the informative response! Heh heh, yeah...I sure will admit that Pinnacle Souveran smells better than the FK1000P, and if I enjoyed doing this stuff at all I`d probably enjoy using it (still my fave for the Jag). Though I actually like the chemically smell of the FK pretty much.

I keep forgetting that many/?most? here reLSP before it`s necessary and actually enjoy it! Heh heh, just FWIW, that "find something you like and use it often" that Mike got from...oh [crap] I can`t remember, think he worked for PPG...is one of those Conventional Wisdom things that I actually *don`t* subscribe to now (more of my Autopian Heresy), though I sure did do it that way for ages. Nowadays, I find something that I like, in part because I *don`t* have to use it often, and then use it as infrequently as I can get away with :o Sigh...I really *did* enjoy Souveraning stuff back in the day though...even used it on the undercarriage of my last `vette.
 
Accumulator said:
Gearhead1- I appreciate the informative response! Heh heh, yeah...I sure will admit that Pinnacle Souveran smells better than the FK1000P, and if I enjoyed doing this stuff at all I`d probably enjoy using it (still my fave for the Jag). Though I actually like the chemically smell of the FK pretty much.

I keep forgetting that many/?most? here reLSP before it`s necessary and actually enjoy it! Heh heh, just FWIW, that "find something you like and use it often" that Mike got from...oh [crap] I can`t remember, think he worked for PPG...is one of those Conventional Wisdom things that I actually *don`t* subscribe to now (more of my Autopian Heresy), though I sure did do it that way for ages. Nowadays, I find something that I like, in part because I *don`t* have to use it often, and then use it as infrequently as I can get away with :o Sigh...I really *did* enjoy Souveraning stuff back in the day though...even used it on the undercarriage of my last `vette.
Click to expand...


Accumulator, let me start by saying that I mean no offense with this post but believe it or not the minute I typed Mike`s (or whoever else may have coined the phrase) comment, I actually anticipated this to be your response. I thought to myself he`s going to say he doesn`t or doesn`t like to touch his car often. I actually believe that people get the fact that you stand more of a chance of marring their paint by touching it than by leaving it the garage to only be viewed. :)

Sometimes I wonder why you continue to embrace this hobby? There is certainly a group people that are more interested in the results than actually working on the vehicle. I believe however, the larger group of people who follow the detailing forums actually like touching their vehicles and trying new products. They derive a level of satisfaction working on their vehicles, they like talking about it, they like seeing others results, they like buying tools and products to make their hobby better and they certainly appreciate the fruits of their own labors. For better or worse we`re detailers, some better than others, Pro`s and Hack`s but we touch our cars. That`s the reason the forum exists.

I suspect at one time you looked at things differently but seriously one can`t help wonder why you continue on with this love/hate relationship? It seems at times to be more hate than love. You use the term Heretic/heresy often but I`ve gotta wonder if the word is at times not synonymous with antagonist when reading some of your posts. This all said, there is nothing wrong with finding ones comfort zone and standing pat. I guess you`ve found something you like and simply choose to use it less often. :)
 
GearHead1- No Offense Taken. Didn`t mean to come across antagonistically and I`ll give my future posts greater consideration with that in mind.

Why do I carry on with Detailing? Same reason I carry on with all my other chores- they`ve gotta get done and I`m the guy who`s doing them.

My "Autopian Heretic" is meant to be tongue-in-cheek; different things work/don`t for me compared to many others here.

I`m good at this stuff, have a somewhat extensive knowledge base related to the subject along with decent communication skills, and hope to assist others by contributing here...which I`m more likely to accomplish if I don`t come across badly :o
 
Figured I would update this thread. Hurricane Irma hit my area hard and I just got around to ordering the products above and detailing my truck.

So what I ended up doing:
1. Chemical decontamination using poorboys iron remover.
2. Wash with CG Citrus wash & gloss (only soap I had on hand, will be switching once I use it all up). Wheels and tires got poorboys wheel cleaner with various brushes.
3. Brought the truck in the garage and clayed using poorboys clay and clay lube.
4. Compound using HD Cut with Griots gg6 with 5 inch backing plate and Griots BOSS white pads.
5. Polish with HD Polish and BOSS yellow pads.
6. Apply FK1000p using yellow foam applicator. I left it on for a little over an hour and then wiped it off.

Thoughts after the fact:
-The paint was really dirty given the amount of red after using the iron remover. After the iron remover and wash, surprisingly while claying the clay did not get excessively dirty and was very slick and passed the baggy test.
-Compounding and polishing with a DA is hard work! My arms and back were hurting big time after doing the frontier. All in all it took me a little over 20 hours to get everything done and completed. In the future I need to do a better job of taping off the trim and plastic as well as clean my pads more often, as I got a lot of dusting due to my pads not being clean onto the trim which was difficult to remove. The HD cut finished out really nice with the white pad. So much so that I did not notice much of a difference after applying the HD polish with a yellow pad.
-I applied the fk1000 WAY too thick, can not stress that enough. Even though I applied an obscene amount, it still wiped off extremely easy thankfully. The shine is incredible afterwards.

I plan on doing a wash as recommended this weekend and applying a second coat of fk1000p afterwards.

I do still need some help on extra products. I am thinking of applying a coating to my wheels and windows and was thinking of trying the Mckees wheel and window coatings. Thoughts? I also need something for my trim. Any recommendations on trim and plastic cleaner as well as what is a product to protect? And finally, can the knowledgeable people here recommend some form of spray wax or QD to help maintain the fk1000p as well as keep the truck and trim looking clean? I have seen OCW and D156 recommended, should I go that route or maybe poorboys QD?

I really appreciate all the help I received from this thread and through reading all the material on this site.
 
PearTree- Hey, I really liked reading your update. Heh heh, nah...not just because you used HD Polish and FK1000P ;) Not just because you taught yourself a lesson regarding thin *thin* *THIN* when applying the latter either! Just read like something by somebody who *THINKS* and does his utmost to do things right.

I find that for the ongoing upkeep of the FK1000P, using Garry Dean`s Infinite Use Detail Juice as a Drying Aid works incredibly well...so much so that I`m basically over using QDs! Sure never thought I`d post that, but !oh man! does that stuff work for me.

I usually only use Spray Wax for out-of-the-way places and for exterior trim, but you might like using it for a Drying Aid if you`re not interested in the IUDJ. I like both Optimum Car Wax and Meguiar`s D156/Ultimate Qwik (or somesuch cutesly spelling) Wax. Both work fine for me on trim whether it`s sealed (I use Ultima`s Tire and Trim Guard Plus) or not. Neither has ever caused issues when applied over FK1000P either. But I bet that you already knew that *I* would recommend those, huh?

Hey, there`re upgrades for the IUDJ that supposedly boost its LSP-like qualities. Juice Boost is the name of the "add-to" product and IIRC he now sells some LSP-like version of IUDJ as well. Maybe one of those options would let the IUDJ cover all the bases. Sheesh, I sound like some shill for Garry :o
 
I`ll second the Garry Dean stuff.

I got a taste of the `LSP-like` stuff that is coming out in December....it is awesome (hopefully we can talk about stuff not available through Autopia). My new, non Garry Dean, LSP of choice is Jescar Powerlock. Goes on easy, does not stain trim and removal is a piece of cake.

Some samples of the Powerlock --> https://www.autopia.org/forums/click-brag-the-detailers-showcase/188499-body-shop-fix.html
Garry Dean product in action --> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DIqKFQUHkMRxF5JC2
 
jatleson- Heh heh, I was afraid that your second link would be to one of Garry`s videos!

EDIT: clarification- Love his stuff, genuinely like Garry, but have uhm...limited tolerance...for his, uhm.. online persona.
 
Accumulator said:
PearTree- Hey, I really liked reading your update. Heh heh, nah...not just because you used HD Polish and FK1000P ;) Not just because you taught yourself a lesson regarding thin *thin* *THIN* when applying the latter either! Just read like something by somebody who *THINKS* and does his utmost to do things right.

I find that for the ongoing upkeep of the FK1000P, using Garry Dean`s Infinite Use Detail Juice as a Drying Aid works incredibly well...so much so that I`m basically over using QDs! Sure never thought I`d post that, but !oh man! does that stuff work for me.

I usually only use Spray Wax for out-of-the-way places and for exterior trim, but you might like using it for a Drying Aid if you`re not interested in the IUDJ. I like both Optimum Car Wax and Meguiar`s D156/Ultimate Qwik (or somesuch cutesly spelling) Wax. Both work fine for me on trim whether it`s sealed (I use Ultima`s Tire and Trim Guard Plus) or not. Neither has ever caused issues when applied over FK1000P either. But I bet that you already knew that *I* would recommend those, huh?

Hey, there`re upgrades for the IUDJ that supposedly boost its LSP-like qualities. Juice Boost is the name of the "add-to" product and IIRC he now sells some LSP-like version of IUDJ as well. Maybe one of those options would let the IUDJ cover all the bases. Sheesh, I sound like some shill for Garry :o
Click to expand...

I appreciate the kind words, I figured my post would be too long and detailed for anyone to read. lol. I am thinking about either the OCW or the new Mckees trademark extender wax as it is marketed as an extender for all their coatings, which I plan on using for my wheels and windows as they both have received a lot of good reviews. In reference to the UTTG+, how well does it perform in restoring trim that is already oxidized and faded? Should I look into something like solution finish to restore the trim and then the UTTG+ to protect?
 
PearTree said:
I appreciate the kind words, I figured my post would be too long..
Click to expand...

Heh heh, not so long/detailed compared to a lot of what *I* post :o

Oh, BTW, while it looked like the Finish Polishing with the HD Polish wasn`t really necessary, I bet that under some conditions the improvement would surprise you ;) Good that you did that extra step IMO. And yeah...IMO you can basically never change/clean pads too often, as evidenced by your dusting experience.

..In reference to the UTTG+, how well does it perform in restoring trim that is already oxidized and faded? Should I look into something like solution finish to restore the trim and then the UTTG+ to protect?
Click to expand...

As you suspected, gotta prep it first. The UTTG+ will add some blackness/darkening, but it`s best to have things pretty good before applying it. Most of the time all it takes is some Griot`s Rubber Prep (yeah, even for plastics/etc., i.e., stuff that`s not actually rubber). In more severe cases I`ll first use Klasse AIO (the minimal LSP-stuff it leaves behind cleans away easily enough with the Rubber Prep). In *really* bad cases I use other stuff (some of mine started out utterly white and chalky), but that`s awfully rare. The Solution Finish might work fine, but I`ve never tried it. If you go that route, I hope you post back about how it works for you.
 
Accumulator said:
Heh heh, not so long/detailed compared to a lot of what *I* post :o

Oh, BTW, while it looked like the Finish Polishing with the HD Polish wasn`t really necessary, I bet that under some conditions the improvement would surprise you ;) Good that you did that extra step IMO. And yeah...IMO you can basically never change/clean pads too often, as evidenced by your dusting experience.



As you suspected, gotta prep it first. The UTTG+ will add some blackness/darkening, but it`s best to have things pretty good before applying it. Most of the time all it takes is some Griot`s Rubber Prep (yeah, even for plastics/etc., i.e., stuff that`s not actually rubber). In more severe cases I`ll first use Klasse AIO (the minimal LSP-stuff it leaves behind cleans away easily enough with the Rubber Prep). In *really* bad cases I use other stuff (some of mine started out utterly white and chalky), but that`s awfully rare. The Solution Finish might work fine, but I`ve never tried it. If you go that route, I hope you post back about how it works for you.
Click to expand...
I agree with you after putting the paint in the sun it does shine better and have more clarity with the HD polish than just with the HD cut. Given the 20% off sale going on now, I ordered the Mckee`s extender wax and wheel coating for the wheels. I also ordered the solution finish as autopia has a kit with cleaner and applicators, so the plan is to use the cleaner, apply the solution finish, then apply the UTTG+ over top. We shall see how it goes and I will update once I get it all in and have time to apply everything. I still haven`t had time to wash and apply a second coat of fk1000p yet.

I appreciate the help on the subject and the MANY threads here have helped me choose quality products and avoid all of the garbage detailing products that are out there on the market.
 
Wow, sounds like you got a ton of work done. I’m going the other direction throwing out my junk products and standardizing on McKee’s 360 and FK1000p. My cars are both fairly new, white and garaged a majority of the time. I did get some of the McKee’s wheel coating though, the wife’s Lexus pours out brake dust! Honestly there’s very little bad advice on here. A million products and as many ways to use them. I loved HD Speed, the ease of use and the way it looked and felt was great, longevity not so much. I’m hoping 360 will give better results.

Dont get get wrapped up in buying a ton of products just to have, you may find yourself rarely using most. In fact now that your rig is in good shape you may find an AIO might be all that’s needed followed by some fk1000 every now and then.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top