Rob Tomlin
Lotus Exige S
yakky said:
Yeah, we may only make up 10% of the car buying public, but we are much louder than the other 90%!
paddle shifters VS. manual stick shift
- Thread starter BigAl3
- Start date
Yeah, we may only make up 10% of the car buying public, but we are much louder than the other 90%!
imported_Picus
New member
yakky said:
The original DSG was a bit clunky; something like Porches PDK or BMWs DCT can essentially be driven in "auto" mode and are just like autos; whereas you have the ability to shift them fully manually, sans torque converter, like a manumatic.
RE: Durability/reliability; we'll see I suppose. I'm obviously not privy to all issues on all cars, but I haven't personally heard of any major issues with any of the dual clutch gearboxes, even the old ones like BMWs SMG or Ferrari's F1 (which is like 20 years old now, I think?)
On the manual front... I am playing devil's advocate here, I don't want them to go away, but it's just the way things are going. Less V8s, smaller engines, more forced induction, more hybrids, more gears, less aggressive gearing, CVT, dual clutches. I'm sure some models will maintain manuals for some time, but for the most part they are already gone as far as I can tell.
Dan
Well-known member
Picus said:
I know the Toyota and VW boxes both have their issues, plenty of pre 100k failures. VW recalled over 60k of them in recent models. Its like anything else, the more complex a device is, the more failure prone. Another thing not mentioned is the DSG boxes are heavier than a manual.
Rob Tomlin said:
nonsense. they need to crack down hard and no slap on the wrist even for the first time offense. it should be just like a traffic ticket where you get a point and have to go to traffic school to remove it (on top of the fine). IMO, someone texting/talking while driving is like saying that nobody out on the road is more important than their texting/talking. enough is enough already...
if someone wants to talk while driving, they have this thing called bluetooth...
Rob Tomlin
Lotus Exige S
BigAl3 said:
....and texting while driving is more dangerous than driving drunk.
Accumulator
Well-known member
I've watched some people do some pretty incredible driving while talking on a phone/handset, but OTOH tests have shown that the "average driver" is almost as impacted by talking on a hands-free as on a regular cell.
I myself see the problem as drivers being "functionally distracted"; different people are more readily compromised than others and I can't help but think that outlawing specific behaviors is the wrong approach.
Is reading a text message any more dangerous than reading/scrolling through iDrive/MMI menus? Is sending a text more dangerous than eating a sandwich? Can you really legislate stupidity away? I see twits reading books/newspapers while driving all the time, just like you used to see people trying to read maps without pulling off the road
[Just for the record, anybody who thinks that I compromise my driving via distractions is reading something very incorrect into the above post
]
Since we've taken this a bit off the original topic anyhow..consider stick vs. paddles in the case of a suddenly-impaired driver situation; it's awfully hard to drive a stickshift vehicle from the passenger seat if the driver becomes incapable for one reason or another. Guess that's not something that comes up every day,but if/when it does, well..it matters.
I myself see the problem as drivers being "functionally distracted"; different people are more readily compromised than others and I can't help but think that outlawing specific behaviors is the wrong approach.
Is reading a text message any more dangerous than reading/scrolling through iDrive/MMI menus? Is sending a text more dangerous than eating a sandwich? Can you really legislate stupidity away? I see twits reading books/newspapers while driving all the time, just like you used to see people trying to read maps without pulling off the road
[Just for the record, anybody who thinks that I compromise my driving via distractions is reading something very incorrect into the above post
]Since we've taken this a bit off the original topic anyhow..consider stick vs. paddles in the case of a suddenly-impaired driver situation; it's awfully hard to drive a stickshift vehicle from the passenger seat if the driver becomes incapable for one reason or another. Guess that's not something that comes up every day,but if/when it does, well..it matters.
There is no replacement for a third pedal. Sure, fancy whiz-bang DCTs or whatnot in some cars these days may be superior from a numbers point of view, but I'm not running a time attack every morning to school or work. I wish to feel connected to my car and enjoy the driving experience. As such, I choose to drive with a third pedal. Asking a computer to complete a shift for you will never be the same as doing it yourself. I will never give it up.
Rob Tomlin
Lotus Exige S
paul34 said:
Very well said.
It's not just a matter of not doing a time attack to work or school either. How about just a nice spirited drive through mountain roads? Give me the manual every time!
I test-drove a BMW 1-Series with paddles, and then drove a similar car with a stick. I ordered the stick, and haven't looked back.
I drove a 3-Series (Tiptronic) loaner yesterday while the 1er was in for service. I couldn't wait to get my stick back. And, there was NO WAY that I could mess around with i-Drive menus while driving. I pulled off the road, found a suitable radio station, got the interior temperature comfortable, said the hell with the rest of it, and reusmed driving.
I do have a USB port in my car, into which my Ipod is plugged. I can switch songs via buttons on the steering wheel. That's as disctacted as I would care to be while driving. I do have playlists in the Ipod, so I like to pick one before I start driving, start it up, and go with it.
As a dismissal-time, student parking lot monitor the last few years of my teaching career, I saw way too much "driving while distracted" to suit me. Once, I had to bail out into a snowbank to avoid a student who was texting while driving. I begged administration for the power to write discipline referrals on students who were driving in such a manner, but got nowhere.
Of course, the main exit street from the school was the scene of 10-12 fender-benders each school year. I aviod it like the plague at certain times of the day.
I have promised to teach my daughter how to drive a stick (think I will start her out on my Focus ; ) She is a good driver, does want to learn, and I think it would spur her to buy manual-shift cars in the future.
I drove a 3-Series (Tiptronic) loaner yesterday while the 1er was in for service. I couldn't wait to get my stick back. And, there was NO WAY that I could mess around with i-Drive menus while driving. I pulled off the road, found a suitable radio station, got the interior temperature comfortable, said the hell with the rest of it, and reusmed driving.
I do have a USB port in my car, into which my Ipod is plugged. I can switch songs via buttons on the steering wheel. That's as disctacted as I would care to be while driving. I do have playlists in the Ipod, so I like to pick one before I start driving, start it up, and go with it.
As a dismissal-time, student parking lot monitor the last few years of my teaching career, I saw way too much "driving while distracted" to suit me. Once, I had to bail out into a snowbank to avoid a student who was texting while driving. I begged administration for the power to write discipline referrals on students who were driving in such a manner, but got nowhere.
Of course, the main exit street from the school was the scene of 10-12 fender-benders each school year. I aviod it like the plague at certain times of the day.
I have promised to teach my daughter how to drive a stick (think I will start her out on my Focus ; ) She is a good driver, does want to learn, and I think it would spur her to buy manual-shift cars in the future.
imported_Picus
New member
This will probably come off as being pedantic, I assure you that isn't my intent - neither the radio nor climate controls on the 3 series need to be controlled with the iDrive. They can, and normally are, controlled the same way as any BMW, via the center console with tactile knobs/buttons. The only time you need to use iDrive for either is if you are setting specific time controlled climate settings, or if you are setting your radio presets.
imported_Picus
New member
iDrive? Eh, it's a toy. A neat toy, but a toy. You can change all kinds of ridiculous settings; it makes it easy to check on control messages/car health etc. I have it because I wanted the built in NAV.
WAS
Driven
Alexshimshimhae said:
Double-clutching is absolutely useless in modern day manual transmissions. Double clutching used to be a requirement many years ago, before the introduction of synchros (synchronized gears).
I don't mind a true manual transmission, but to be honest, I don't mind my fully automatic either. In my teenage years I was always "only manual, never an auto", but since then I've grown up and care less about gear shifting.
Accumulator
Well-known member
WAS said:
Different opinion here, and I might be sensitive to the issue because it's cost me money....
Synchros wear mighty fast if you ask them to do too much. While it's not absolutely necessary with synchromesh transmissions (and yeah, I've driven non-synchro cars
), some of us will still always double-clutch the downshifts both for smoothness and to make the synchros last. I've known a whole lotta cars with worn out second gear synchros, and those aren't cheap to fix. That last three used cars I bought with manual transmissions all needed new ones, and the Porsche/Audi techs I know are really
about how they're replacing them all the time after leased cars get turned in.Sorta like clutches and turbos- synchros oughta last almost indefinitely, but often need replaced due to user abuse.
Same with me and my wife :xyxthumbs
Manuals are fun for track days, but other than that...
Rob Tomlin
Lotus Exige S
Accumulator said:
I would strongly disagree that manuals are only fun for track days!
Give me that manual when I'm doing spirited mountain driving every single time!
Accumulator
Well-known member
Rob Tomlin said:
Heh heh....I'm getting so old....
Noting that, by any measure, I'm one very serious driver (regularly trained/tested, certified by a very demanding outfit), I just don't want to bother shifting for myself most of the time. Yeah, yeah...."car guy blasphemy" huh?
Remember, both my wife and I really did insist for decades that we'd never drive automatics on a regular basis (my wife never drove one regularly until well into her 50s), so I do appreciate where you "stickshifts forever!" folks are coming from
I just don't feel that way any more.
Rob Tomlin
Lotus Exige S
God, I hope I never get *that* old!
The Wraith
New member
I apologize in advance for us DSG users spoiled by 1/10th of a second shifts without having to rely on a clutch...why bother...we have 2 clutches. Nuff Said. Sadly none of this applies to the rides you may expect like the Camaro, Mustang, Aveo RS, Focus RS, etc...Why bother? I invite you to see what the WRX, STI, GTI, and Si all have in common...welll...Let's see what they (you) got!!!
Accumulator
Well-known member
Rob Tomlin said:God, I hope I never get *that* old!
Heh heh heh....check back with me in a few decades
I was *so* used to all my station wagons having stick shifts, that when I got the auto in my '02 Subie I once got out of the car with it in drive
Fortunately the parking brake held it well enough that I was able to jump back in before anything happened