Ouch! More quality troubles at Mercedes Benz..

[autoweenie]

[Stand on soap box, flame suit on]

I must say I don't understand some of the Lexus owners

(I am one of them). Invariably, they get this urge to knock

Germany cars (esp MB, BWM) on the various web sites.

Is this really necessary? Hey, it is different car for different

people... Sounds like Lexus Lackeys to me.

[Get off soap box]

 

[MongooseGA]

I love my Lexus, but I'll say that had I gotten to the broker 30 minutes earlier, I'd have a 540/6 in the driveway instead of the SC4

 

[termigator]

[Stand on soap box, flame suit on]

I must say I don't understand some of the Lexus owners

(I am one of them). Invariably, they get this urge to knock

Germany cars (esp MB, BWM) on the various web sites.

Is this really necessary? Hey, it is different car for different

people... Sounds like Lexus Lackeys to me.

[Get off soap box]

Actually, I'm an Acura man.



I understand where you're coming from. You also have to understand where those "Lexus lackeys" are coming from also. I suspect some, if not a lot of them, have owned a MB or BMW at one point or another and got tired of the lack of reliability compared to a Lexus. I know most people here like "drivability." It's the passion that gets you at the beginning. However, as time goes by and you're having to keep going back to the dealership because of nagging little problems, all of a sudden,you're going to start wondering if the "drivability" of the vehicle is worth the hassle of going to the dealership all the time. I suspect those "Lexus Lackeys" got tired of going to the dealerships and switched. Those who have stuck with the German vehicles are willing to put up with the hassles, but I suspect they wish their vehicles were as reliable as a Lexus.

 

[imported_Intermezzo]

Prinz-style thread bump here...



It's one thing to have a non-safety related recall, but it looks like Toyota's has one-upped DCG with one of it's largest safety recalls ever. SilverLexus, would this fall under the "Ouch!" category as well?



http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050517/ap_on_re_us/toyota_recall



In MY experience (and I know this probably goes against the experiences of most others), Japanese cars haven't been any more reliable than the german cars I've owned. I've owned two Acuras, a Lexus, and a Honda in my lifetime and with the exception of my Acuras, I've had primarily bad experiences with Japanese cars. I owned my Lexus for about 6 weeks before I couldn't stand it anymore and decided to trade it in for my Honda, which turned out to be a much bigger POS. My experiences with BMW and Audi have been superb (at least so far) and far more satisfying.



Hopefully, my current M35 Sport will change my perception of Japanese cars.

 

[SilverLexus]

"In MY experience (and I know this probably goes against the experiences of most others), Japanese cars haven't been any more reliable than the german cars I've owned. I've owned two Acuras, a Lexus, and a Honda in my lifetime and with the exception of my Acuras, I've had primarily bad experiences with Japanese cars. I owned my Lexus for about 6 weeks before I couldn't stand it anymore and decided to trade it in for my Honda, which turned out to be a much bigger POS. My experiences with BMW and Audi have been superb (at least so far) and far more satisfying."



The problem here is that you are basing your conclusion on just your personal experience which statistically is unusual. The better thing is to look at reliability surveys from many customers to get a better overall picture. BMW is a strong #3 in the new JD Power survey and Benz improved but not to the point where it's reputation was.

 

[imported_Intermezzo]

The problem here is that you are basing your conclusion on just your personal experience which statistically is unusual. The better thing is to look at reliability surveys from many customers to get a better overall picture. BMW is a strong #3 in the new JD Power survey and Benz improved but not to the point where it's reputation was. [/B]

I can understand how my post may make you think that I was making some type of conclusion, but I wasn't. I specifically stated that I was only speaking of *my* personal experiences with Japanese vs. German cars. I didn't make any sort of conclusion about which cars are more reliable or have better quality. I even pointed out that my experiences most likely went against the norm.



In fact, despite having my confidence shaken by my experiences with Lexus and my econobox Honda, I still realize that these cars have been great for other people and that many of the Japanese manufacturers make very reliable cars. If I didn't believe that, then I never would have purchased my M35 Sport.

 

[termigator]

Which Honda did you have problems with? My family and I have been driving Hondas since the early nineties and everyone of them have been superb in terms of driveability and reliability. The only exception was my wife's (girlfriend then) 94' Accord, but it had an excuse. It got into a big accident and the bodyshop did a less then satisfactory job of putting it back together. It just wasn't the same after that.

 

[Bill D]

Well, if the overall quality of Mercedes is still quite good, it appears they could be getting sloppy about minor details ( but important to Autopians ) :



I had a chance to more carefully examine some spots that caught my eye over the weekend. The first, and most noticeable is what appeared to me at first to be road spray on the muffler tip. Upon closer examination and a polishing, I realized that the spray in fact seems to be stray solder from the muffler welding process. The spray is not tar but metal drops fused to the exhaust tip.



The odds are that I probably won't be able to remove it.





I made some red marks in the photo so you see them more clearly. Just zoom in the picture for a better look:

The other very slight thing I noticed, and only a die hard stickler would even say anything about it, was a partial black finger print on the Gottlieb Daimler signature badge on the windshield. ( Heaven forbid! j/k :chuckle: ) Someone at the factory got a little sloppy but it does "give the car some character". I think the badge should've been placed more to far corner but I'm unsure if its position might be specific to these models.

He he he, all of this scrutiny and it's not even my car!



Any way ,just pointing out minutia is important, at least to Autopians, especially in the case of a prestigious marque such as Mercedes-Benz.

 

[tyltan]

I agree with the quality of Mercedes has been diminished. I owned 92 300E and 04 E320. I like the built quality of the 92 300E better which made me bought the 04 E320. There were couple areas Mercedes reduced the quality to cut cost in the new car. On the other hand, I had owned Acura/Honda, Toyota, Nissan, not Lexus yet. I had more problems on my 89 Acura Legend (radiator - twice, tranmission-replaced) - 04 Nissan Titan (minor issues - brake fixed 4 times for vibration - warranty, power window didn't roll down - Door weather strip felt off twice on both doors - Dealer scratched my car and rims while it was in service ) - 93 Accura Legend (perfect car, lasted me to 350K miles) - 03 Toyota Corolla ( a bolt which hold the rear door was missing when pick up car - dealer replaced, belt loose -replaced, randomly vibration noise in dash - live with it. I took to dealer to many time, they couldn't replicate the problem.)



As for my Benz - 92 300E - AC problem. No one can fix it.

04 E320 - No problem so far (knock on wood). It has to be repaint because some idiots keyed it.

 

[imported_Intermezzo]

Which Honda did you have problems with? My family and I have been driving Hondas since the early nineties and everyone of them have been superb in terms of driveability and reliability. The only exception was my wife's (girlfriend then) 94' Accord, but it had an excuse. It got into a big accident and the bodyshop did a less then satisfactory job of putting it back together. It just wasn't the same after that.

2001 Honda Civic EX. Let's see, I can recall the following problems I had with it:



-Driver seat rocked back and forth

-Bouncy suspension from defective shocks. I replaced them with aftermarket Koni Yellows when my dealer refused to acknowledge the problem after I hounded him about it. Then, a year later I find out Honda was offering replacement shocks for my car because the problem was so widespread.

-Rear deck rattled no matter how many times I took it to the dealer.

-3 recalls (not a big deal, but still annoying).

-Storage compartment door on dash broke within a month

-Idle dropping problem...almost to the point of engine shutting off

-Seats were extremely uncomfortable and the seatbelt was way too tight (Not just a preference thing either because Honda fixed this in the '02 models)



That's all I can recall for now, but I'm pretty sure there were other problems.



Plus the car in general seemed to have very poor quality. I understand that it's a Civic, but the "cheapness" feel to the car was a step backward from the previous Civic generation.



EDIT: Whenever I drove the car in rain (albeit not too much of a problem here in SoCal) the engine would make really unusual, loud vibrating noises, as if water was somehow getting into the engine. Also, whenever the engine revved at 2,500 rpm, it would make a funny rattling noise.

 

[Bill D]

Ok, Honda, yeah I could understand, but what about other experiences with very late vintage MBs?

 

[Asonyexec]

I think the consumer reports auto issue of 2-3 months back says it all -- lexus & acura are the new MB & BMW.



Hey i dont test 'em, leave that to the pros, I just read what their results show.

 

[imported_Intermezzo]

I think the consumer reports auto issue of 2-3 months back says it all -- lexus & acura are the new MB & BMW.



Hey i dont test 'em, leave that to the pros, I just read what their results show.

Consumer reports' opinion is not the 'end all' authority when it comes to evaluating automobiles. It's a good resource, but only provides car-buying guidelines from a certain perspective. Magazines like MT and C&D would take issue with that statement from CR...as do I.

 

[Lou K]

I think the consumer reports auto issue of 2-3 months back says it all -- lexus & acura are the new MB & BMW.



Hey i dont test 'em, leave that to the pros, I just read what their results show.

Over the last 3 years I have purchased 5 cars (no comments are necessary) 3 Mercedes and 2 Lexus. I have had one minor problem with the 3 Mercedes. The Lexus SC430 was in the shop 15 times in 10 months and the final resolution by Lexus was "We've done all that we can do" (car traded with 1,750 miles on it). The other Lexus, a LS430, is an absolute disgrace in the build quality and materials used on the interior. It has wind noise at anything over 60 miles an hour and the Lexus answer is "They all do it". Passionate Pursuit of Perfection" my BUTT.



I have owned MB auto's continually for 37 years and will have to admit that they are not as reliable as they once were but on the other hand they are much more sophiticated and have much more technology than they did in the past. Based on my own "test" results there is no way that I would place Lexus as high as Consumer Reports.:sosad :sosad :sosad

 

[Corey Bit Spank]

Hm, haven't had any problems with my Honda. I treat it well though.

 

[imported_memnuts]

What's the point of this thread? For every make and model that exist there is a horror story.



I have owned all of the makes discussed here and have had great results with all. Like Corey stated I take care of my vehicles and of course had some fantastic luck and the vehicle I received. Even my old Jeep J10 pick-up truck gave me great service.

 

[Bill D]

Since my post I failed to mention another item. Again, minutia, I'm sharing it for the sake of doing so.



There is a particle of dirt inside the passenger side high beam housing. Time will tell if this a seal issue and dirt will collect from driving or if it was simply a case of poor QC. :nixweiss

 

[zainoshine]

We used to be a Chrysler products family (minivan, Jeep, etc.) but when it was time for a new vehicle, the Odyssey was a no brainer. So far, the only warranty work performed was the little digital clock in the centre of the dash - it's backlight went out so you couldn't see it at night. I think that's pretty good for being almost three years old and almost 60k miles.



Then, in comes our new 2004 TL and we loved it. The initial excitement "honeymoon" period is finally wearing off at 8 months, and we have some complaints. The seats are pretty uncomfortable (no matter what adjustment), there are some rattles that we just can't pin point, and some interior pieces just don't feel right....it's such a trade-off, because my Dad loves the power, the sound quality/system, the general look and feel of the car, and the really cool design. But if the seats are an issue, you simply cannot live with that for a long period of time.



But back to the core topic here: Some random thoughts. I think Lexus lacked one thing for a while (forgive me if someone already said this, I did read through it all...): Character. There really wasn't anything special about their cars in the 90s, IMO. On the otherhand, a Mercedes-Benz had quite a bit of character, it was...a Mercedes! HOWEVER, with the great new GS design, the LS and LF-A, IS, and ES down the pipeline, as well as the latest RX400-H, I truly believe Lexus has created it's own aura of excellence. It's pretty easy to follow....I know this doesn't mean much to most people but MB has been around a LONG time, while Lexus kinda dropped themselves on the U.S. less than 20 years ago...they just needed their time to grow into their own identity and find their place in the automotive brand hierarchy.



Think about how boring it would be if every car on the road was a Lexus, though. Sure, some, even most wouldn't care, but for one I enjoy the rarity, it's kind of a trademark of luxury. So we need BMW's and MB's in this world, and we need them to pull through and step up to the plate of dependability and just kind of re-think themselves.



For what it's worth, the last 2003 Mercedes SL500 I sat it...it's radio tuning knob felt like junk. Just he way it felt, really cheap plastic...left a really bad impression on me even though I think the design is drop dead gorgeous.