Orange Peel

K

KnuckleBuckett

New member
I read in this fourm about people wet sanding a finish to remove the factory orange peel in their paint.



If the paint has orange peel and the paint is under the clear coat, wouldn't the clear coat have to be removed to remedy this?



I don't understand the concept I guess.



Anyone care to fill me in?



:thx
 
Orange peel found on cc cars is normally on top not in the color coat. It is the texture of the top coat of paint, normally occurring during the drying phase.
 
For the most part yes, think about it like this, even though the clear is a different color than the paint is sits on, it's still another coat of paint, so almost pretend that the clear is the same color like on ss all you have to do is smooth the top down.
 
Okay. Thus sanding the CC eliminates all of the peel?



If so, I have a 2005 Lexus LS430. I have never attempted this myself.



Is this something I should attempt? Understand that I am comfortable sanding and have even wet sanded on the rare occasion (epoxy), however I do not want to ruin my finish.



Advice?
 
Thanks Dan!



Not doubting you at all. If I can ask? Why?



I am willing to locate and work with a reputable detailer if this is beyond my skill set.
 
To do a whole vehicle is a lot of work. Almost must be done with rotary. Though you could do a panel at a time.



If you have read some threads on the subject and have all the tools needed and feel it is within your grasp, then try a small area and polish it out.



Two tips are, wet sand a little (2000 grit) and wipe dry. You should see a scratched area (the high points of the clear) and an untouched area (low points), hills and valleys. The idea is to reach the even point, where you start to sand the low spot. Polish out.



Another is to stay away from areas that you can't polish with the rotary. Edges, door handles, emblems etc.
 
KnuckleBuckett said:
Thanks Dan!



Not doubting you at all. If I can ask? Why?



I am willing to locate and work with a reputable detailer if this is beyond my skill set.
Click to expand...



There was a detailer who mentioned a customer asked him if he could remove the orange peel off his car. This detailer replied:



Detailer: "I don't think you want me to do that."



Customer: "Why?"



Detailer: "My fee would be more than having your car repainted by a top level body shop."



My assumption from that was that to sand an entire car would take a VERY long time.
 
It's a whoooole lot of work to do the whole car by hand. I just finished mine (a bad new paint job on a 6 year old car). I had never wet sanded, compounded, or polished anything in my life but proceeded carefully and took my time.



Here's what I learned:



* With 2000 grit, unless you sit and sand with all your might in one 2" spot for 30 seconds straight, you're not going to do any damage unless your CC is already thin.



* I had bad texturing/orange peel. I used 1500 grit with pressure and even then never had any bad experiences.



* salty's comment above about avoiding areas you can't get to with a machine is a good one. Leave at least a half inch of border near those areas unless you're a perfectionist and are going to go back by hand over those areas.



* People will tell you to use a backing pad for your sandpaper. If you keep your hand moving, this really isn't necessary. I did the entire car without a backing pad -- just my fingers and never staying exactly in one spot. If you hose off the area, dry it, and keep checking it, you won't screw yourself.



* Expanding on what salty said above, basically what you will see when you start doing an area is polka dots. The dots will be the color of the car's paint (and still have CC on them) and the surrounding "negative space" will be the CC mountains you have sanded the tops off of. When you no longer see speckles/dots, you have leveled the CC mountains down to the proper lower CC level.



* Once you're done sanding, you're going to need an aggressive rubbing compound + rotary or dual action polisher to take the surface to roughly 3000 grit level. Once this is all done, feel free to take a day or two off :)



* Then you do the entire car again with a polish (not TOO fine though or it will take ages) and deep clean (clay or whatever) and wax/seal as you like.



Go for it if you want, but... oof. If it's typical mild orange peel, I'd consider living with it.
 
OK.



What brand and types of sandpaper did you wetsand with?



Also is it true clay lube works better than water for wet sanding?



Sounds like the payoff versus the effort and risk involved are going to prevent me from proceeding. It doesn't help my car is flipping huge.



Thank you for your advice and help.
 
I did wet sand a few years ago my Nissan 300ZX . I´m still sore from it . It is a lot of work but on the other hand , WOW what a difference in the glow of the paint .

You can always try a small area and give it a try .





Good luck . If you do please take lots of pics .



Cheers , Jean Paul
 
Besides the equipment you'll need, and the risk involved during the process. You have to remember that the clear is there for a reason, to protect your paint. If you're sanding away this protection, then your paint will be more susceptible to UV rays, and what if you scratch the car and it requires heavy buffing and or wet sanding to be removed? You wont have much clear to play with. It just isnt worth doing on a factory paint job. Now if this was a show car with SEVERAL layers of clear, then it might be a different story. But on a daily driver and factory paint, it just isnt worth it in my opinion.



Meguiars and 3M sell wet sanding paper. You can use dish soap and water.
 
3M "Wetordry" paper. Should be able to find it at any of the usual auto parts places.



As for lube/water: (I'm sure someone will bicker with me about this, but) The water is to prevent buildup/caking on the paper, not for lubrication of the surface. You're trying to remove material, not slide over it.



You could always visit your local junk yard, pick up a body panel, and go to town on it.
 
If your paint is super soft I don't see why 2k can't remove "most" of the peel, if it's medium or hard you will definitely need more than 2k grit to remove it completely, I would urge you not to waste your time if that was your plan of attack, megs makes unigrit, 3m makes papers that are locally available only 6-8-1k-1500- 2k, though.
 
D&D Auto Detail said:
Dont do it, its not worth it.
Click to expand...





+1



The optimum time to reduce orange peel is just after a vehicle is painted. Later OP reduction requires removal of too much clearcoat for flawless correction and to rejuveniate a high gloss for a normally driven vehicle.
 
Hey there KnuckleBucket.

I’ve owned several body shops and detail shops. I am not trying to be controversial to the posts regarding orange peel being paint or clear ... but the fact is it could be the paint, it could be the clear and it could be both! Here’s why:

If the paint goes on and doesn’t ‘flow-out’ to a smooth finish like it’s expected to, it will cure/dry with the bumps referred to as “orange peel�. If this happens, and the car get’s cleared correctly and ‘flows out’ perfectly, then the orange peeled paint is ‘telegraphing’ through the clear and you’re still getting the “orange peel� finish.

However, if the paint goes on well and ‘flows’ to the ideal ‘flat/smooth’ finish, but the clear doesn’t go on or ‘flow-out’ as expected, then of course the bumps you see are only the clear (other than no peel at all, this is the best case scenario).

Of course, this could happen with both applications.

I would set your expectations to only “reduce� the orange peel you see through a wet-sand, unless you can find a piece of trim that you can experiment with the paint underneath. If removing some trim you can get to a section of paint, start with 1200 grit and sand a thumb size spot 5 strokes at a time. Squeegee the spot dry and you’ll see the tops of the orange peel has been sanded rough while the low spots are still shiny. Continue until the surface is one level and uniformly scuffed – but check often to see if the clear has been rubbed off the tops of the bumps – if so – stop immediately and live with the condition of the cars orange peel. If not ... continue to sand ... but this next part is critical to the outcome of the whole car. Continue to sand till you DO go through the clear. From what I’ve garnished about your posts, you’d be able to tell if you went through the clear coat or not, just by looking. Monitor how long it took to go through the clear once you’ve gotten the orange peel sanded out. If it’s just a stroke or two more, than you know you don’t have much to work with and it be best to leave a little ‘peel’ on the car and only reduce what you currently have. If you can go on for a while, than you’ve got good coverage and shouldn’t have any problems. (Beware of repaired or replaced panels). OH – and protect that spot you just tested before putting the trim back on.

If you do have a good clear coat to work with, then I’d start with a 1500 grit wet-sanding paper. Do NOT buy unknown brands, and be prepared to go through one half sheet for each panel of the car.

“Kickslop� gave a good description of what you’ll see as you go. The only place (as he noted) where I unwaveringly differ is the backing pad! You MUST use one. In fact, you should have three or four of various sizes. The big flat surface panels on that car need a large flat backing pad, as the small areas and tight corners are to be done with the small backing pads. If you do not use them, you will leave uneven and elongated “fingering� impressions as you sand. It’s most important to keep the sand paper wet, almost dripping at all times. Use a sponge and let the water slowly run down the panel, through your sanding passes. I wouldn’t use a lube, but in sensitive areas I have seen some classic car prep pros hash a line of bar soap across a small spot. Every couple of passes you should squeegee the area to examine your results as some panels will sand out faster than others and this is a visual science, not a stroke-count or assumed time frame. All strokes are to be long, sweeping strokes. No short, vibrating, or herky-jerky actions, and don’t start or stop the paper against the paint. Always start and stop motion just off the surface. Keep the squeegee in play at all times to constantly view your progress!

Keep the squeegee in play at all times and constantly view your results! I can’t say this enough!

I’ve read your posts over the last year or so, and get the notion you plan on keeping this sled for a while. Therefore, on horizontal panels, I advise leaving the ‘slightest’ of peel when sanding. These panels will end up being heavily buffed out over several more years to come, so it’s best to leave a bit more for future buffing. Once done, wash the car thoroughly getting all the grit out of all the corners, edges, trim line traps, etc. You do not want to start buffing and get that grit into your multi step products or pads! Follow your regular routine for a hard-core, multi-step buff, polish, glaze, etc, etc.

I know this is close to a novel for this site, but details are the key to a good detail.

Hope it helps.
 
Wow.



I want to thank you all for the input. Especially Saintlysins for the book! ;)



I was really undecided until I read through all of your posts.



I am now decided. No way am I going to do this. This is likely going to be a long term ride for us. Thus I would rather not decrease the depth of the clearcoat reducing it's ability to protect the paint as a whole. Further the lines on the LS430 would be very difficult to follow cleanly. Especially on the hood. It is just not worth the hassle and risk for a paint job that is already pretty swell.



However, it is my hope that this thread goes on to help those who will want to attempt this process, now and or in the future.



Thanks again!!



:hifive:



Knuck
 
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