ONR or HD FREE, Which is right for me?

[Legacy]

ONR is not a waterless wash, but Opti Clean is.

I didn't have the same success with ONR in a spray bottle for waterless washing. I must be doing something wrong.

 

[Scottwax]

I chaulk it up to first time use, Truck was dirty and I guess you use more water with a rinse bucket.



You never use a rinse bucket?



I would not have felt good about not using a rinse bucket. The water was dirty brown after half a truck.

Nope, never had a need to. You'd be amazed at how dirty the water can look and still clean effectively and safely. On really dirty vehicles, I just change the water out halfway through. Once you've used it a few times, you'll get a feel for when and if the water needs to be changed out. With proper technique, you shouldn't get any marring. On warm days, work in smaller sections so the area you are washing doesn't dry out too quickly, then you are dragging a dry towel across dry paint and that does lead to marring.



I use two towels to dry, one for the first drying pass and another for the second, always making sure at least some moisture is left behind for the second drying pass. Once I got that down, no marring. Just like with anything new, it takes a few tries to really nail it.

 

[kdrchuck]

I wiil try it again. I'm sure the water would go a lot further without a rinse. Right now I dont have enough MFs to do both vehicles without cleaning towels.



It was more sunny/hotter on th ONR side of thr truck.



Also, after thinking about it, I wasted a lot of DPwaterless by presoaking and not getting back to it before it dried.

 

[AlexRuiz]

Thanks for sharing the feedback!



I am really curious as to how *dirty* your dirty was. We need pictures. Did you blast the car first with the PW?

You used a lot of waterless. The waterless work fine with just 1 or 2 sprays per panel, 3 or even 4 if really filthy (no, I don't mean caked with mud.) spray one or 2 panels, clean them and move. top to bottom.

 

[kdrchuck]

Thanks for sharing the feedback!



I am really curious as to how *dirty* your dirty was. We need pictures. Did you blast the car first with the PW?

You used a lot of waterless. The waterless work fine with just 1 or 2 sprays per panel, 3 or even 4 if really filthy (no, I don't mean caked with mud.) spray one or 2 panels, clean them and move. top to bottom.

I did take one before. I guess I wasn't impressed enough for afters. No PW, I did use the hose to knock off some chunks of mud from behind the fenders.

 

[01svtL]

Where are you guys getting your powerwashers from? I was always worried about pressure washers themselves marring the paint from blowing the dirt off/across the paint under those kinds of pressures, is this not a concern?

 

[kdrchuck]

I used the DP waterless again yesterday. Truck was a week in the rain dirty. With 24oz of mix, I was able to do the entire truck ommitting, Wheels, tires and wheelwells. By he end i was able to pick up speed witht the product and see some time savings.



My best results came from: Misting an entire panel waiting a few seconds (not the recommended 30 seconds). Then over 1/4 of the sprayed panel I used a loosly fisted MF in short random movements (felt like i was knocking dirt off). Then with a dry towel buffed to a shine. Moving on through the panel I would rewet where needed.



I love the way the black looks immediatly after washing. It is a deep wet shine. To the touch the paint lacks in slickness as compared to my traditional wash. I feel this contributes to how quikly it gets dirty again. The beautiful shine created after the wash last only a day and dust is picked up quikly. I am evidently leaving light residues in a few areas. I notice what looks like streaking in the dust after a day.



As farf as maring I am impressed. I have some photos of a panel that was corrected about a month ago. If it is marring it is super fine "holograms" I belive what is showing up in the photos is streaking from the product.

 

[kdrchuck]

 

[Tunch]

See? I told you! you make wonders with whatever tools and products you have. There is absolutely no way I could clean a vehicle as fast using a rinseless as I do with HD free / 3D waterless.

How do you make 1 oz of ONR / 32 oz of water clean as good as a waterless? I have used it double than that (8 oz per gallon for QD dilution) and even at that dilution, HD Free is simply better as spray product.



I used S&W in the past, it cleans better than what you are giving it credit for. However, HD free is superior in every way, from lubricity to look and specially cleaning power. S&W had a "greasy" feel, more to conceal. HD free is plainly a better cleaner, feels more slippery without feeling as "greasy" when liquid; and once dry, feels much slicker.



OP, I see you got both kind of products from autogeek. I still suggest to get HD free. The autopia store had a free shipping coupon, PM Ben or the admin to see if you are still in. I don't know what to make of Autogeek's detailer's pro waterless, but as detailer's pride, their rinseless was barely better than QEW... Here, we are always asking "this or that?" and in all truth, in very few cases we have someone that has used both "this" or "that". If you get the HD free you could help us here. Detailer's pro waterless might be amazing, or could be worse than their old rinseless, but without a reference comparison we won't know for sure....

I agree. HD Free or 3D Waterless is the best way to go. I can not imagine how 1 oz of anything (even you put gold in the bottle) in one gallon can make a diference. I bought ONR and did exactly that ... Well it cleans but so does water!!! Please try this. Just use 1 gallon of water without anything in it (the ONR way ) you will get the same results.

Technically you are rubbing the dirty water in to the paint. How can 1 oz of chemical do anything in one gallon of water mixed with dirt ?

Just try only water you get the same results. Whereas 3D Waterless Carwash is a lubricant any you spary the pure chemical direct to the surface without any water. They also claim that they have a Bureau of Veritas world wide certification that it will not scratch your paint.

Their calim makes sense. First of all when you spray on the car the polymers encapsulates the dirt which creates a ball bearing effect and you wipe the MF to on direction only (not back and forth). Then once the dirt is on the MF you buff it with the clean part.

I did not find any diference with 3D waterless or HD Free. Since they are both made by 3D I think just the color and label is diferent... Other than that they both perform well.

I am a true beleiver of the HD UNO and when I contacted Ben he sent me free bottle of the HD Free. I suggest you guys PM Ben.

They did not even cahrge shipping. No harm in tryning

 

[cptzippy]

Don't Try Just Water!!!! (unless you want to mar)



@thewaxer: sorry mate, your argument is non-sensical. You say that 1oz of chemical makes no difference but then you say 3d waterless has polymers that encapsulate dirt. Sounds exactly what ONR does. I'm sure HD and 3D are both great products but to dismiss a product that many people on here have used for a couple of years or more based on this logic just ain't right. Then to suggest people do something that will intentionally mar the finish of their cars, come on man.

 

[AlexRuiz]

I agree. HD Free or 3D Waterless is the best way to go. I can not imagine how 1 oz of anything (even you put gold in the bottle) in one gallon can make a diference. I bought ONR and did exactly that ... Well it cleans but so does water!!! Please try this. Just use 1 gallon of water without anything in it (the ONR way ) you will get the same results.

Technically you are rubbing the dirty water in to the paint. How can 1 oz of chemical do anything in one gallon of water mixed with dirt ?

While I have stated that HD free is a better, I have used the rinseless alternatives (QEW, ONR and DP) and witnessed at how good they are also. 1 oz of product makes a huge difference. After all, in a conventional wash, 1 oz of soap is what we use per gallon of water the rinseless just don't foam, but clean as well as regular soap would.



For the using just water, DO NOT do it! My wife did that before, just spraying water to the minivan and then drying with a towel (oh, and the minivan wasn't exactty clean and the towel used was just a regular bath towel...) The amount of marrying induced was beyond real, the whole car covered with spiderwebs. True, being this a daily driver, and my wife not really caring about driving slow in the dirt roads (sometimes it looks like an off roading ATV) some marrying when I wash it is practically inevitable. Still, in one session, she forced me to do some polishing.

 

[Accumulator]

.. I can not imagine how 1 oz of anything (even you put gold in the bottle) in one gallon can make a diference. I bought ONR and did exactly that ... Well it cleans but so does water!!! Please try this. Just use 1 gallon of water without anything in it (the ONR way ) you will get the same results...

One ounce of the right something can indeed make a dramatic difference, whether one can imagine how it works or not



As noted by others, there's simply no comparison between ONR and plain water when it comes to instilling marring. Sorry if I sound :argue but I don't want somebody to try a plain water wash and then have to spend ages polishing away their clear to fix the resultant damage.



Also, the ONR solution isn't just "water mixed with dirt" as much of the dirt settles out and falls to the bottom of the wash bucket. Other dirt is encapsulated.

Just try only water you get the same results..

What I find odd is that you'd suggest this as if you've actually compared ONR with plain water and had them turn out equivalent :think: I've done both (see below) and there was no similarity at all.



Washing with plain water was actually advocated by some back in the day (e.g., see '60s- mid '80s Jaguar owner's manuals and also the Malm Corp.'s "Clean Cars Make Money" pamphlet). As a young ignoramus (who didn't think it through ), I read such tripe and then tried using plain water... and I marred things up something awful due to (plain)water's inferior cleaning ability and utter lack of encapsulation. I've also tried ONR, and while it doesn't work as well for me as it does for others, it *is* incomparably better than plain water; it both cleans more effectively and encapsulates to a significant extent.



Heh heh, there....Accumulator actually posts in heartfelt defense of ONR. Will wonders never cease?!?

 

[Accumulator]

I was always worried about pressure washers themselves marring the paint from blowing the dirt off/across the paint under those kinds of pressures, is this not a concern?

Generally, no, it's not a concern. I haven't used a pressure washer for this since my last Karcher died, but it never caused any marring for me. And the siphon-feed sprayer I'm currently using for this (hooks up to the air compressor, pretty decent pressure) doesn't do it either.



Spray at an angle, don't overkill the pressure, and you should be fine.

 

[David Fermani]

I like both ONR and HD FREE and they're both quite different from how I use them. FREE leaves a super slick finish behind when used as a QD. Nice smell too. I've yet to try the new ONR though. I like using ONR for rewetting of MF DA pads.

 

[Accumulator]

I like both ONR and HD FREE and they're both quite different from how I use them. FREE leaves a super slick finish behind when used as a QD. Nice smell too. I've yet to try the new ONR though. I like using ONR for rewetting of MF DA pads.

I wonder if FREE would be better than ONR for my pal with the Jag MKII :think: It's a big challenge for him to wash the car at all, and while he's not destroying it with the ONR I set him up with, I'm open to upgrading.



That's a good tip about ONR on the MF pads, I wouldn't have thought of that.

 

[Scottwax]

How can 1 oz of chemical do anything in one gallon of water mixed with dirt ?

1 oz of BioKleen Traffic Lane Cleaner in 32 oz of water makes an amazingly good carpet/fabric cleaner and 1 oz of ONR in 2 gallons of water makes a great rinseless wash that makes water slippery enough that you can clay with it at that dilution. Try doing that with straight water.



I've used rinselss washes (QEW and ONR) since the early 90s and I've probably washed more vehicles using rinseless washes than anyone else on the planet (over 14,000 and counting) and I wouldn't have spent the money on QEW or ONR if straight water worked as well. I do have Optimum's excellent waterless wash at my disposal and 99.9% of the time I still use ONR.