AeroCleanse
New member
I just tried Chemical Guys EcoSmart, works great! I can see a place for it in my arsenal.
ONR or HD FREE, Which is right for me?
- Thread starter kdrchuck
- Start date
fastcar said:You can also get HD Free in a gallon for $22. Let say you use 8 oz a car(Normally I use about 4-6 oz on a mid-sized car). That comes to $1.37 a car. HD Free is cheaper as well.
ONR is a lot CHEAPER. Say you spend $40 for a gallon. Takes 1 oz per car. Cost is 31 cents per wash.
Scottwax said:
I disagree Scott
HD Free is $22 per gallon, and you should use between 2-3 oz from the jug per car if you dilute 1:1
That works to almost the same cost, it is faster, and it is MUCH more versatile. Can ONR (or any other rinseless) be applied directly to the car? It can't be applied. To do so you need to prepare it at QD strength, which takes 8 oz per gallon of water, and NO, as QD is not as good as HD free.
Why don't you give HD Free a shot? I am absolutely sure it will find a place in your arsenal.
Will it substitute ONR? I can't tell, you are so good and familiar with some products that even when they are inferior you make wonders with them *cough* Megs 83 and 80 just as a sample *cough*. However, I know that in some cases you will reach for HD free first.
AlexRuiz said:I disagree Scott
HD Free is $22 per gallon, and you should use between 2-3 oz from the jug per car if you dilute 1:1
That works to almost the same cost, it is faster, and it is MUCH more versatile. Can ONR (or any other rinseless) be applied directly to the car? It can't be applied. To do so you need to prepare it at QD strength, which takes 8 oz per gallon of water, and NO, as QD is not as good as HD free.
Why don't you give HD Free a shot? I am absolutely sure it will find a place in your arsenal.
Will it substitute ONR? I can't tell, you are so good and familiar with some products that even when they are inferior you make wonders with them *cough* Megs 83 and 80 just as a sample *cough*. However, I know that in some cases you will reach for HD free first.
I can put 1 ounce in a 32 oz bottle and use it to clean my car assuming it has about the same level of dirt as I've used with waterless washes.
I've used waterless type washes (Eco Touch, Opti-Clean, Dri-Wash, Poorboys, etc) and they don't compare with ONR or even QEW in cleaning anything beyond a very lightly soiled vehicle. I already have waterless washes on hand and I don't use them on anything other than my road bike. As fast as I can wash a car with ONR and as well is it cleans grime and sap off cars, I don't really come across any situations where a waterless wash works better for me.
AeroCleanse
New member
Scottwax said:
I didn't have the same success with ONR in a spray bottle for waterless washing. I must be doing something wrong.
I've been using ONR for a little while, now. IME, it cleans well/safely, but the only thing I'm disappointed with is the lack of slickness that others seem to get, both in use and afterward. It doesn't feel especially slippery while washing and I don't really notice any additional post-wash slickness beyond a regular wash. The finish doesn't look any better, either. I pre-treat with QD strength ONR, wash with the recommended mix in the bucket using a sheepskin mitt, then dry with MF. Not saying I don't like ONR, but it's not quite the exceptional product I was expecting.
mikenap
New member
Accumulator said:
BTW, I still haven't figured out why ONR messed with the 845 on my beater-AudiSheesh, I'm just hopeless with the stuff
Could you please elaborate on this? I noticed that the initial slickness of 845 on my DD, which stays outside 24/7, lasted until my first wash with the new formula ONR. Don't remember having any issues with the old formula, but that was with a different LSP too.
Accumulator
Well-known member
mikenap said:
This was with the older version of ONR. There was a recent/healthy, but not quite "just last week"-fresh, coat of 845 on the car. I pretreated with a not-quite-QD strength spray of ONR, followed by a *VERY* gentle ONR was using it at "normal carwash" strength with Shamrock MFs.
All ONR mixes were with DI water. I didn't do anything remotely weird/stupid/careless/etc.; I did have my thinking cap on
Absolutely killed the slickness of the 845, left it "grabby" like I couldn't believe. Even just the drying was awful, the MF simply wouldn't slide across the panels. As if I'd washed it down with an APC that wasn't quite strong enough to completely strip the LSP but was enough to really mess it up. I tried just refreshing it with SpeedShine, but no joy, had to rewax to get things OK again.
Some people have asked about this on Optimum forums and elsewhere, but AFAIK there's no good answer for why it happens. But this was absolute, first-hand, experience; it *DID* happen, and to somebody who was, uhm....thoughtfully attending to all the relevant variables. Spooked me so badly that I've been leery of ONRing unless I know I have time to rewax if needed, and that sorta defeats the whole "quickie cleanup of the beater" purpose of the thing.
Scottwax said:
See? I told you! you make wonders with whatever tools and products you have. There is absolutely no way I could clean a vehicle as fast using a rinseless as I do with HD free / 3D waterless.
How do you make 1 oz of ONR / 32 oz of water clean as good as a waterless? I have used it double than that (8 oz per gallon for QD dilution) and even at that dilution, HD Free is simply better as spray product.
I used S&W in the past, it cleans better than what you are giving it credit for. However, HD free is superior in every way, from lubricity to look and specially cleaning power. S&W had a "greasy" feel, more to conceal. HD free is plainly a better cleaner, feels more slippery without feeling as "greasy" when liquid; and once dry, feels much slicker.
OP, I see you got both kind of products from autogeek. I still suggest to get HD free. The autopia store had a free shipping coupon, PM Ben or the admin to see if you are still in. I don't know what to make of Autogeek's detailer's pro waterless, but as detailer's pride, their rinseless was barely better than QEW... Here, we are always asking "this or that?" and in all truth, in very few cases we have someone that has used both "this" or "that". If you get the HD free you could help us here. Detailer's pro waterless might be amazing, or could be worse than their old rinseless, but without a reference comparison we won't know for sure....
AlexRuiz said:
That's the plan, and why I bought smaller bottles. I would have went directly to HD free vs ONR now but I needed to order some other things from the geek anyways (free shipping and 10% off). I have read good things about DP waterless on another forum.
I will Get a comparison of these and then the HD free. Just doing my personal cars, it may take a little while to form a firm opinion.
I washed my DIRTY truck today. I did half with ONR and Half with DP Waterless.
I personally liked the Waterless better. It felt slicker while cleaning and when finished. It was also much faster and used No water.
The ONR used as the bottle directs felt like it drug/dragged(?) a lot and didn't really seem any faster than a traditional wash. The drag might have been fixed with a pre-spray with ONR (More water and product). I liked using a sponge better than MF.
Product use:
ONR. I made a 4 gallon bucket with 2 oz of ONR and that was enough to do Half the truck down the middle, bumpers and wheels. I would have had to make another batch changed the rinse bucket to do the entire truck.
So, 4oz of ONR and at least 15 gallons of water.
DPWW. Used nearly 24oz of mix for the remainder of the truck including windows and grill. Could have easily done the entire truck with 48oz of mix which is 12oz of product. Also used lots of MFs.
I personally liked the Waterless better. It felt slicker while cleaning and when finished. It was also much faster and used No water.
The ONR used as the bottle directs felt like it drug/dragged(?) a lot and didn't really seem any faster than a traditional wash. The drag might have been fixed with a pre-spray with ONR (More water and product). I liked using a sponge better than MF.
Product use:
ONR. I made a 4 gallon bucket with 2 oz of ONR and that was enough to do Half the truck down the middle, bumpers and wheels. I would have had to make another batch changed the rinse bucket to do the entire truck.
So, 4oz of ONR and at least 15 gallons of water.
DPWW. Used nearly 24oz of mix for the remainder of the truck including windows and grill. Could have easily done the entire truck with 48oz of mix which is 12oz of product. Also used lots of MFs.
kdrchuck said:
Why so much ONR and water? 1 oz for two gallons of water should have been more than enough to wash your entire truck body unless it was really filthy. I detail a lot of trucks and SUVs here in Texas and the amount of water/ONR I use for cars is also adequate for larger vehicles. :nixweiss
I usually use 2 gallons of water and 1 oz of ONR for the wheels, tires and fenderwells, then I dress the tires and fenderwells so any dressing overspray is then washed off when I wash the rest. I then use another 2 gallons and 1 oz of ONR for the body of the car, door/trunk jambs and gas cap area. No rinse bucket, no pre-spray.
I don't use an MF towel to wash because like you noticed, there tends to be some drag. However, microfiber covered foam pads work great and glide across the paint a lot better.
Once you get the hang of it, you should be able to wash with ONR a lot faster than traditional washing. I absolutely despise the once or twice a year I run into vehicle dirty enough I need to use a hose and traditional car wash soap on. Seems to take me forever!
Tried a little experiment myself. The Lexus was clean until a recent rain/mud storm. It was what I would describe as moderately dirty. I tried the OOC on the trunk lid. Was surprised at how well it did work but still was not up to the challenge. Used almost half the bottle on the trunk and it didn't quite get it all. Finished the rest of the car with my ONR at it definitely did the trick.
Scottwax said:
I chaulk it up to first time use, Truck was dirty and I guess you use more water with a rinse bucket.
You never use a rinse bucket?
I would not have felt good about not using a rinse bucket. The water was dirty brown after half a truck.
cptzippy said:Maybe I haven't trusted the waterless enough. Any sign of marring on either side?
Oh, BTW --- PICS!
Sorry I didn't take any pics. I thought about it but I figured i would just embarrass myself.
Marring: Actually, unfortunatly, I think I noticed new marring on both sides. On the ONR side i noticed very fine hologram like swirls (may have been streaking. IDK but it was evident in the sun). On the waterless side there were a some (not a lot) new random light "scratches" I would blame on occasional larger grit in the MF.
The truck was driven all week 30-50 mile/day with rain almost every day. Maybe it was just too dirty for either technique. I didn't use the power washer to spray it off, just a quik hose off for the little bit of big stuff that was on it.