ONR or HD FREE, Which is right for me?

[kdrchuck]

I really need to move to a quicker and more water conservative method of washing. I am washing a charcoal grey Unlimited Wrangler and a black Crew Cab Silverado. Comes down to 4+ hours of washing and Tons of water. Both vehicles a DD and pretty dirty on a weekly bases including mud from dirt roads and off roading every now and then.



I still plan on using my power washer to get off the big stuff which uses 1/3 the water of my hose and nozzle.



HD Free: I love the idea and simplicity of spray and wipe. Can it be used on a wet car?

ONR: Sounds safer for the paint, and very versitile. Might be messier for indoor washes.



Major concerns: Cost and amount of product used. MARRING! Water savings, but anything is better than what I am doing now.



Which product would you recommend for me? Other product suggestions are welcome.



Thanks!

 

[cptzippy]

Haven't used HD free but I love ONR. I was very nervous about marring a first with it but haven't noticed much at all. I would say that the ONR would be better for when it is muddier. OPT also has the opticlean product that works well - it's spray and wipe. In concert I think they'd say a lot of time and water. The concentrate of the opticlean makes it not that expensive at all.

 

[audilover]

ONR allllll day. It's really great to have the leftover water to do your wheels. I also strongly agree with zippy on the opti-clean. It is a great product. I keep it in my trunk with 2 mf towels to clean my car when it's not too dirty. It's like a super strength quick detailer. Both are great though.

 

[Accumulator]

Predictably, I suppose, I voted "conventional wash". Noting that I've only tried ONR and QEW, conventional washing is the only way I'm able to keep marring down to what I consider an acceptable level (i.e., virtually nonexistent). Yeah, yeah...I know...

 

[kdrchuck]

I figured i would get a lot of pull for the ONR.



Acc: I have a feeling I won't be able to wash with ONR completly mar-free but I have read somewhere where you talked about priorities. How important is it that you spend 8 hours a week on a vehicle? Come down to cost also.



Did some math (may not be right at all) I figure: 128oz ONR=$40 if I use 8oz per car (big cars) that is $2.50 per car and 16 washes per jug so about 2 months of washes. $20/month on soap should be made up for at least partially by water costs. Time means a LOT also.



IDK how much time the ONR will save. Can anyone comment on that? Just to wash my truck it takes at least an hour.

 

[kdrchuck]

I used the "ask about this product" feature (which i think is great) in the autopia store. The reply said that i might get 2-3 washes out of 24oz of HD free, making it much more expensive than ONR.



Also, I correcteda few panels of my truck last week and did a traditional wash today. I thought i had a pretty good technique but with not a cloud in th sky today, it is obvious that I still installed some marring. Why not try ONR, right?

 

[cptzippy]

I was really worried about marring with ONR (and there are threads on here from a few years ago to prove it). But I really didn't notice much different than traditional 2 bucket washes and I was always very careful.



I noticed your math on how much ONR you'd use. I think you'll find you use alot less. I use the directed 1oz to two gallons and can generally do my wife's MDX with that without a problem. I still have plenty left on my little Lexus IS with that amount.

 

[kdrchuck]

I was really worried about marring with ONR (and there are threads on here from a few years ago to prove it). But I really didn't notice much different than traditional 2 bucket washes and I was always very careful.



I noticed your math on how much ONR you'd use. I think you'll find you use alot less. I use the directed 1oz to two gallons and can generally do my wife's MDX with that without a problem. I still have plenty left on my little Lexus IS with that amount.

Sounds great.

 

[imported_reeeko991]

Sounds great.

HD Free will cost you more over the long run and will probably use more product.



ONR will go farther per bottle.

As Zippy mentioned for ratio's.



Both look nice after use. Both are nice to work with.

I use both depending on how dirty the vehicle is.



No marring from what I've seen with either product.

 

[Scottwax]

No marring issues with ONR, plus the added gloss and slickness after each wash are a great bonus. Plus at QD strength, it makes a great clay lube, detail spray and glass cleaner. A towel dampened with ONR does a great job on light interior stains too, regardless of whether it is the leather, vinyl or cloth/carpet.



1 oz of ONR per vehicle-in fact, if they aren't very dirty (just dusty or lightly spotted) you can wash both vehicles with the same ONR solution. As a test to a customer in Arizona (made two trips out there last year), after I washed his car, I set the ONR solution aside while I detailed his car. After finishing, I washed my car, which had spent a week in the snow in Dallas (12" storm February 2010) and a 1000 mile drive to Arizona and was absolutely filthy. Washed my own car with the same ONR solution I used on his with zero marring.

 

[kdrchuck]

You all are making me feel pretty good about the ONR. Headed to Autogeek.net now.

 

[imported_fastcar]

I have used both and both work well. If you are in an area where you can not hose down the car, HD Free is definately the way to go. Kinda like the clean, non-chemical scent of HD Free better as well.

I figured i would get a lot of pull for the ONR.



Did some math (may not be right at all) I figure: 128oz ONR=$40 if I use 8oz per car (big cars) that is $2.50 per car.

You can also get HD Free in a gallon for $22. Let say you use 8 oz a car(Normally I use about 4-6 oz on a mid-sized car). That comes to $1.37 a car. HD Free is cheaper as well.

 

[Fresh Look]

HD products are so good that's all I use now. First of all HD Free is a true waterless car wash. ONR is a different method of washing. You have to use 2 gallons of water with ONR. We are comparing apples vs. oranges here.

 

[AeroCleanse]

I'm about to get some Chemical Guys waterless wash delivered. I'll have to see where it fits in between ONR and traditional washes. My first guess is, for mobile detailing where there isn't any water hookup and not wanting to haul water to the site. My second guess is for between traditional washes.

 

[kdrchuck]

HD products are so good that's all I use now. First of all HD Free is a true waterless car wash. ONR is a different method of washing. You have to use 2 gallons of water with ONR. We are comparing apples vs. oranges here.

I have used both and both work well. If you are in an area where you can not hose down the car, HD Free is definately the way to go. Kinda like the clean, non-chemical scent of HD Free better as well.







You can also get HD Free in a gallon for $22. Let say you use 8 oz a car(Normally I use about 4-6 oz on a mid-sized car). That comes to $1.37 a car. HD Free is cheaper as well.

UH OH. Good thing I didn't place that order yet. Head to Head right now. Keep it coming. Thanks.

 

[AlexRuiz]

I am not sure who has tried BOTH products here, but it seems that many of the folks advocating the rinseless (ONR) have not tried a good waterless wash like HD FRee or 3D waterless. I have used both, waterless and rinseless. What I wrote in another thread:

I am also using 3D waterless wash diluted 1:1 for the same reason. It has so much lubricant that it streaks very easily, even worse in near or sub freezing temps. If you buff with a dry microfiber that usually takes the streaks out, but it is more effort. $40 per gallon? Where? Autopia has it for $31, and to be honest, I would go for its fancier twin, HD free, which is $10 less a gallon and I would rate slightly better. I have found them both very good at window cleaning and all purpose cleaning, so I don't think a rinseless is better here. In fact, while it is practical to have one product for all the needs, why would you sacrifice performance? A dedicated glass cleaner still has more power for tough grime, a dedicated interior cleaner like HD total cleans better and a good quick detailer is still better at shiny surfaces.



Furthermore, the cost factor becomes a non issue, as $21 a gallon for HD free is half the cost of a gallon of a rinseless wash. Dilute the HD free 1:1 and the 4-6 oz per car become only 2-3oz from the gallon. 2oz of HD free equal 1 oz of rinseless wash as far as cost. Add the convenience and speed factor, and in my eyes the winner is clear.



Now, I think both coexist nicely. I wouldn't use a rinseless where I wouldn't go waterless, meaning that for soiled cars, you either rinse first with a PW blast or just go full regular wash. However, in sub freezing temps you can have the rinseless prepared with very hot water, allowing you to work the panel with less risk of freezing. The waterless is out of hope here. By the time you are done spraying the panel, the stuff is frozen



I say keep them both (waterless and rinseless), and use whatever that works better in specific situations. Keep in mind you your towels will be washed more often for the waterless.



Alex

From a different thread

- Wash with a waterless car wash. 3D waterless and HD free cut time a lot. Going from conventional to rinseless saves a lot of time. Going from rinseless to waterless is a saving as big. The waterless can wash anything the rinseless can. Remember, you have already blasted the nastiest stuff. If time is really a constraint, you should already be using waterless. 4 oz should be enough to clean a properly blasted car.

These 2 should give clear where I stand. I have tried them both, and I would use rinseless in only a very few specific cases (subfreezing temps or wet car) I will finish my current shampoos for conventional, and then it is HD free all the way.



Cost? A wash with rinseless takes 2 oz, $40 per gallon. A wash with waterless takes 6-8 oz for a midsize car for me, but I soak the panels. 4 oz should suffice. However, HD free at full strength has so much lubricity that it will streak (I am sure it streaks because I use too much) I dilute 1:1 with distilled water. My 6-8 oz become 3-4 oz from the gallon. $22 per gallon. HD free is at worst a tie as far as cost

Speed? Do you remember how much time you saved going from conventional to rinseless? Going from rinseless to waterless is going to be a leap at least as big.

Marrying? Same as when you went from conventional to rinseless. There were doubts, but the doubts were cleared after using it. Convenience? Not comparable, let's be honest. Finish? The waterless leaves a finish at least as nice. Versatility? Anything the rinseless can do, the waterless can. I just cleaned my engine bay while changing my oil. HD free has enough power to clean even speckles of grease. The finish? I didn't even had to dress the plastics! I have also used HD free / 3D waterless even as rinseless (I was out of rinseless and it was too cold to try waterless. 4 oz of 3D waterless on 2 gallons of hot water worked almost as good as a dedicated rinseless)



If I wanted to play devil's advocate, the only other product I would consider instead of HD free would be the new detailers Pro waterless wash concentrate from autogeek. That should work at aprox $10 per gallon of waterless wash. I don't think it could be diluted further, so cost factor it is a tie with HD free. I am waiting on the next sale at the autopia store to get more HD free / HD total.



Hope this helps



Edit: I forgot to mention that because you blast the car with a pressure washer, any perceived advantage the rinseless had for more soiled cars is gone.



Alex

 

[Marc Hufnagel]

Those quoting cost per ounce or wash are forgetting the high shipping costs for these things..

 

[nyakerz]

I think 2 gallons of ONR directly from OPT is free shipping. I will definitely order 1 gal of ONR and 1 gal of OCW once I used all my Hyperwash and LSP's.

 

[kdrchuck]

Those quoting cost per ounce or wash are forgetting the high shipping costs for these things..

1 gallon of HD free shipped $32

1 gallon of ONR shipped from AG with 10% coupon $48

 

[Accumulator]

I figured i would get a lot of pull for the ONR.



Acc: I have a feeling I won't be able to wash with ONR completly mar-free but I have read somewhere where you talked about priorities. How important is it that you spend 8 hours a week on a vehicle? Come down to cost also. .... Time means a LOT also..

NO argument with that! :xyxthumbs Hey, guess why I sometimes ONR the beater-Audi



And I do understand the water issue. I'm fortunate to live in an area where it's simply not an issue, but that's sure not true everywhere.

No marring issues with ONR.. I washed my car, which had spent a week in the snow in Dallas (12" storm February 2010) and a 1000 mile drive to Arizona and was absolutely filthy. Washed my own car with the same ONR solution I used on his with zero marring.

Your super-powers put me to shame :chuckle: Between ONRing without issues, and your (oh so quickly learned!) hologram-free finishing via rotary, and the way you can get Souveran to last in the Texas heat....man, you make me feel like I'm living is some inferior parallel universe. Heh heh, guess one answer is "that's why you're the Pro", huh?!?



BTW, I still haven't figured out why ONR messed with the 845 on my beater-Audi Sheesh, I'm just hopeless with the stuff