ONR and other rinseless washes VS. LSPs

K

kapflaco

New member
I love ONR, especially in the winter, but it seems to kill my two go to LSPs: 845IW & 476. I have read other similar posts, but was wondering if anyone with the same experiences found an LSP that was ONR resistant (other than OCW & OS)? Or is there another rinseless product that is more LSP friendly that I should try?



In my current arsenal I have: BFWD, M26, M21, FK1000P, P21S, & Blitz Wax. I have a fresh coat of FK1000P on my garage queen, but am afraid to ONR it and risk having to re LSP.



Thanks!
 
kapflaco- I too had ONR kill my Collinite, but I hear the latest version of ONR doesn't do that any more.



IME the ONR doesn't mess up FK1000P.



I've switched from ONR to IUDJ, but I haven't done a whole start-to-finish wash with it so I can't say for certain how it plays with LSPs. But using the IUDJ as a post-wash QD (before/during drying), it hasn't messed up FK1000P, Collinite, or M16.



Note that the current hotness in rinseless washes seems to be the Ultima...just in case you're really thinking of ordering something.
 
ONR Wash and Wax works amazingly well with everything. And honestly, if beading is what you go by to determine how your wax is holding up, you'll think you never need to wax again if you use ONR W&W.
 
Thanks Scott and Accumulator for chiming in! I've followed many of your posts and threads over the years of lurking. I will try to ONR the FK1000p and report back. I have been wondering about ONRWW and I may have to try IUDJ and the "hot right now" Ultima product.



Scott you raise an important question...it's not just the disappearance of beading entirely, but also the disminished slickness and dirt release properties of the Collinite after ONRing. After second guessing myself on this for a while, I now believe that the ONR and Collies just don't play we'll together. That being said if you use OCW or OS as a drying aid after every ONR wash, who cares.
 
Never been a fan of 845, even conventionally washing, I wasn't getting great durability. 476 is another story, really like it. Durable, great looks and fully compatible with the latest version of ONR and ONR W&W.
 
kapflaco- I had that exact same experience using ONR (the previous version) on both 845 and 476S, and IMO it genuinely killed the wax (didn't merely diminish the beading). Note that "experts" said it wasn't possible :rolleyes:



Scott's experiences almost always mirror my own (except that Souverän lasts longer for him :ohwell: ) so I'm wondering what version of ONR you have.
 
I think I have ONRV2...I have so much of it I hate to get rid and start anew. I also have a lot of the original Opti-Clean...I use it as a quick detailer/bird bomb remover over ONR since it was designed to be a waterless wash (I figure less chance of marring when wiping off a bird bomb in the parking lot). I keep it in the car for these instances and it seems to also affect the LSP on the area I use it on.
 
David Fermani said:
Is ONR v2 the one that has the fruity smell?
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I don't think so....think it's that "chemically" scent I generally like. I'll try to remember to go out and sniff it and post back. I too have a bunch that I'm probably never gonna use :o Something I'm keeping in mind whenever I get all excited about trying something new ;)
 
This is what one would expect, to be honest. Rinseless products work by adhering elements to the surface which reduce the friction and thus decrease the potential for damage. In the absence of a rinse, you will almost certainly not actually remove all of these. You may very well find that a really thorough clean or an IPA wipedown will return the LSP to a better state.
 
PiPUK said:
... You may very well find that a really thorough clean or an IPA wipedown will return the LSP to a better state.
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Except that the IPA would very likely further degrade the wax :( Or, at least it would be a fine line between "cleaning away the rinseless wash's residue" and "cleaning away the wax itself".



This is one of my big concerns with rinseless washes- the stuff they leave behind. I know that *many* people here use them and have zero issues, but it still concerns me. The way my (between-regular-washes) wheel cleanups with ONR made them *SO* much harder to clean the next time really got my attention. That was despite a thorough wiping down with FK425 as the final step (which I also do after conventional washing).



Some time I'll try cleaning the wheels with my IUDJ and see if it causes the same issue that ONR did.
 
Accumulator said:
Except that the IPA would very likely further degrade the wax :(
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My experience is that IPA rarely does any damage to any of the LSPs I am using. I posted recently and demonstrated that a surfactant type product could give the appearance that LSP was stripped and a subsequent IPA wipe recovered it.
 
Accumulator, that's how I discovered the issue initially too...after washing wheels with ONR, they became harder to clean the next time. Then I noticed beading, slickness, dirt resistance had disappeared on the paint too. It just shows how effective a cleaner ONR really is since it can remove all residue from the painted surface. My sense is that although ONR definitely leaves behind its own stuff, that this "stuff" REPLACES, ie removes the Colly/lsp from the surface, rather than layering on top of the Colly / LSP.
 
PiPUK said:
My experience is that IPA rarely does any damage to any of the LSPs I am using...
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Huh, I've used IPA to (deliberately) strip LSPs and it did do that. Different LSPs, different effects I presume.



I posted recently and demonstrated that a surfactant type product could give the appearance that LSP was stripped and a subsequent IPA wipe recovered it.
Click to expand...



You *have* certainly piqued my interest with that, and if/when it happens again I'll give that at try and see how it goes.



kapflaco said:
Accumulator, that's how I discovered the issue initially too...after washing wheels with ONR, they became harder to clean the next time. Then I noticed beading, slickness, dirt resistance had disappeared on the paint too...
Click to expand...



When I experienced those two things (difficult subsequent cleaning and apparent LSP degradation), they were on different vehicles/LSPs. The wheel cleanings *did* leave them OK, no damage to the LSP on the wheels (not Collinite).



It just shows how effective a cleaner ONR really is since it can remove all residue from the painted surface.
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I dunno if it's such a potent cleaner that it "cleans off the LSP" in the general sense. I've never had it damage FK1000P, for instance. I've used it to clean off bugs/etc. with no issues, but I never tried that on Collinite due to my past experiences with ONR on that particular LSP.



My sense is that although ONR definitely leaves behind its own stuff, that this "stuff" REPLACES, ie removes the Colly/lsp from the surface, rather than layering on top of the Colly / LSP.
Click to expand...



If it does that, then I have no use for it. I knock myself out getting my vehicles properly LSPed in the sense that all I'll do for months on end (sometimes well over a year!) is wash them. Significantly degrading my LSP is simply unacceptable to me, period.



Eh, we're sure give lots of bandwidth to something that apparently only applied to previous versions of ONR!
 
David Fermani said:
Is ONR v2 the one that has the fruity smell?
Click to expand...



IIRC, ONRv1 had the chemical smell (wish I missed, and now OptiClean has) and v2 had a "mulberry" scent. I don't have V3, but I used some that a friend has and it smells a little different as well, still fruity.
 
Accumulator said:
Huh, I've used IPA to (deliberately) strip LSPs and it did do that. Different LSPs, different effects I presume.



You *have* certainly piqued my interest with that, and if/when it happens again I'll give that at try and see how it goes.
Click to expand...



Different LSPs, different results. However, nothing we make will be stripped with IPA. Since we do not sell to end users, I cannot actually advise you about what products to try but I would advise you to question your LSP if IPA destroys it.



Try this experiment, put some IPA into a glass and add a bit of carnauba wax. Come back a week later. It will still be there. Come back and tell me that you still believe IPA strips LSPs with seconds of contact on a panel when it doesn't dissolve the most simple of automotive waxes with many thousands of times longer contact.



Extending this, many of the more interesting protective ingredients are insoluble in IPA. Why would they manage to dissolve them from a surface (especially considering that the ingredients often cure making them even more resistant)?
 
Just a thought, but IPA is water soluble. Its able to dissolve in water 100% easily. It has no surfactants (bipolar molecules/soaps/detergents). So why would it strip or dissolve "wax", which is hydrophobic?



My experience with IPA is it doesn't do much. But maybe someone could explain why I'm wrong.
 
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