Ok, help me with a plan....

B

breakneckvtec

New member
I searched, I read tons and tons of stuff. I still dont know what I want to use. I want a plan to go with here. So this is the deal, I have a few light surface scratches I want to get rid of, I need a recomendation for this. I have light swirls I want to eliminate so I need a suggestion for a paint cleaner/SMR. I want it to shine nice so I need a glaze/polish suggestion. I think I got the wax part I will be using a carnuba wax so thats fine I think. So let me have it whats a good combo. Also my scratches have a white appearance to them, my car is blue, but dont grab my fingernail....can I buff them out? All products will be aplied with a PC.





















edit: NO PICS IN SIGS

-Jngr
 
Since you have a PC you should probably start with 3M Swirl Mark Remover. That should cut through them pretty fast.



Oh, the pic in your sig doesn't work because images aren't allowed in the signatures on Autopia. You may want to review the email you got when you signed up. :xyxthumbs
 
And if the SMR doesn't do the trick you may need too use something more abrasive 3M's FI2 or a fine cut rubbing compound. But try the SMR first, if it works your finished polishing.
 
Now are any of these abrasive? I was thinking of using the 3M SMR or PF II but I want to know if either is abrasive. I want one that is to get the surface the way I want then I want one that is more of just a cleaner for the 2 times a year I will clean the paint but dont need to remove swirls. What would make a good cleaner, how bout just a cleaner by meguiars I was thinking.





















edit: NO PICS IN SIGS

-Jngr
 
breakneckvtec said:
Now are any of these abrasive? I was thinking of using the 3M SMR or PF II but I want to know if either is abrasive. I want one that is to get the surface the way I want then I want one that is more of just a cleaner for the 2 times a year I will clean the paint but dont need to remove swirls. What would make a good cleaner, how bout just a cleaner by meguiars I was thinking.
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Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner by Meguiars is a nice rather gentle cleaner that you can use often. It is considered non-abrasive, but it has what Meg's calls micro-abrasives. "Abrasive" is one of those terms that has to be quantified. Even water is abrasive to some degree, so there has to be some limit of abrasiveness where things above are called abrasive, and things below are called non-abrasive. MPPC is considered non-abrasive, and it is mainly a chemical cleaner, but it does have some abrasion to it (as does anything). It might help with very minor swirls, but it isn't a replacement for a good swirl remover if that's what you need.



That said, though, two times a year may not be necessary. There isn't any advantage to cleaning paint that doesn't need cleaning. I imagine once a year would be just fine, and maybe use a glaze twice a year instead.
 
Aurora40 said:
Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner by Meguiars is a nice rather gentle cleaner that you can use often. It is considered non-abrasive, but it has what Meg's calls micro-abrasives. "Abrasive" is one of those terms that has to be quantified. Even water is abrasive to some degree, so there has to be some limit of abrasiveness where things above are called abrasive, and things below are called non-abrasive. MPPC is considered non-abrasive, and it is mainly a chemical cleaner, but it does have some abrasion to it (as does anything). It might help with very minor swirls, but it isn't a replacement for a good swirl remover if that's what you need.
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I've heard differently about MPPC. :confused: I'd heard it was on the stronger side for a paint cleaner, and this is supported by the "unofficial Megs abrasiveness scale"(?) post. According to that, #9 swirl remover is actually the gentlest product. :nixweiss



I've come to almost totally ignore claims of "non-abrasive" because of the reasons Aurora40 mentioned. (I hate nitpicking, but I think Meguiar's considers it non-abrasive, while they actually contain micro-abrasives. ;)) Almost all cleaners, polishes, swirl removers, etc. have some abrasive in them, but which product you choose depends on how much "fixing" the paint needs. Like Aurora said, there is no actual need to "clean" the paint twice a year, and people only use cleaners/polishes on their car when they want to start all over (for whatever reason) or just polish out the car because it's starting to show swirls.



Swirl removers are fairly mild, and even milder are paint cleaners like the ones from S100/P21S. But as with anything like this, don't use them unless needed. I can't remember if anyone got your Q from your other thread, but I wouldn't make using a cutting pad part of your regular routine. Its job is to enhance the abrasiveness of a product and help "cut" down the top of the paint when you're correcting more serious defects, so again it's okay to use it, just only use it when needed.
 
Sorry to butt in guys - I have just bought medallion cleaner and #9. I was planning on using them both (medallion then #9) but now I hear differently :nixweiss
 
I paint cleaned my car, with medallion then clayed to reove the stubbon bits and then used 9 to give it a real deep shine. I intend to do the same agin over christamas in my mates workshop as results combining the two products where amazing.
 
4DSC said:
I've heard differently about MPPC. :confused: I'd heard it was on the stronger side for a paint cleaner, and this is supported by the "unofficial Megs abrasiveness scale"(?) post. According to that, #9 swirl remover is actually the gentlest product. :nixweis
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Well, that post was unofficial. Meguiar's doesn't index the abrasiveness of MPPC. I've used it a fair amount and consider it to be pretty mild for a paint cleaner. It isn't mild like GEPC, but that's not really a cleaner. It's much more of a glaze that does light cleaning. MPPC is actually a cleaner, and as cleaners go I find it quite mild and friendly. I've also found that it does next to nothing for swirls and spiderwebbing.



4DSC said:
I've come to almost totally ignore claims of "non-abrasive" because of the reasons Aurora40 mentioned. (I hate nitpicking, but I think Meguiar's considers it non-abrasive, while they actually contain micro-abrasives. ;))
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I don't quite get the nitpicking. Do you mean Meguiar's is being dishonest? If they label everything as abrasive that has some abrasivness, then they'd have to label their car wash and foam applicators and everything else as abrasive too. Everything on earth is abrasive to some degree. So some reasonable distinction has to be made. MPPC falls below where they draw the line of what is reasonably considered abrasive.



To me it seems to make sense to draw the line at the point where the abrasives may have some negative impact. So products where the abrasive is high enough that you may need to think about how often you use it should be called abrasive. I'd say products like DACP and other products that can fix mild to medium paint defects would fall into this category. If a product has such a low level of abrasion that you could use it fairly frequently without any worries, then I'd say it should be considered non-abrasive. I'd say products like #9 and MPPC and SFP probably just barely fall into this category. I really can't imagine any harm coming from regular use of these products. But that's just my take on it.
 
Well, I got curious so I broke out the bottle of MPPC. Nowhere on it does it claim to be non-abrasive. It does say it's a safe alternative to harsh, abrasive cleaners, though. It also doesn't say that it is non-abrasive on the website or in the catalog I have. I think it is just the phone reps that say it's non-abrasive but has micro-abrasives. So perhaps the fact that micro-abrasives are intentionally added is why it doesn't say non-abrasive.



I also decided to review the Meguiar's Swirl Mark clinic again. They recommend a cleaner (Body Scrub, Deep Crystal Cleaner, or MPPC) for removing "deeper swirl marks that can still be removed by hand". They then go on to talk about their polishes (#7, #9, and Deep Crystal Polish). #9 is referred to as being "more aggressive than our pure polishes and less aggressive than our cleaner". So perhaps #9 is in fact gentler than MPPC.



I have never used #9, but I have used MPPC a fair amount. I also tried MPPC and SFP on a rather heavily oxidized 1982-4 (can't remember the year) Caprice. I tried both SFP and MPPC by hand with a foam pad to see which would be the better product to use. SFP left the finish with more shine, but they both seemed to clean about the same amount (which wasn't enough. I think in the spring I'll try DACP and maybe a cutting pad). It's possible MPPC had stronger cleaners but just not strong enough to cut this tough oxidation, and that SFP looked better because of the glazing it also does. But I still don't think you can go wrong using MPPC as a cleaner. It really does a great job and feels very mild while doing it. However, I don't think you'd go wrong using #9 or SFP as a cleaner either.
 
I spoke to a rep from Meguiar's a few weeks ago regarding MPPC and he told me it was their "strongest" cleaner which could be used by hand or orbital.....which would seem to indicate that it's a bit stronger than #9.



However, he assured me that MPPC CAN be used as often as you like on your paint for the life of your car without ever having to worry about thinning the clear-coat too much. The same applies to the rest of their cleaners & polishes that can be used by hand or orbital.



While I understand Aurora's point about abrasives only being called abrasives once you get to the point where frequent use may be harmful, I would still prefer it if Meguiar's would just say that a certain product is abrasive if it is. Yes, if you want to get technical, you can even call the soft solid contents in Zaino abrasive. Of course, we don't need to go to that extreme, but if a product contains kaolinite, aluminum oxide, quartz silica, aluminum silicate klay, or any other COMPOUND material, I think it's only proper that a company should freely say so. Just my opinion though. What I personally think ain't worth a spit in the bucket compared to the marketing/business techniques that have made Meguiar's into the giant it is today.
 
I have suddenly been owned by mass confusion. What do you guys recomend now? I think I will use 3M swirl mark remover, yellow pad, then go with the meg glaze #7 I think it is, white pad, then finish with a good carnuba wax, either mothers or meg. In place of the 3M SMR when I want to just clean the paint but do not need to remove swirls I dont really know what to use. How does this sound? I also thought of zaino and klasse. I dont really know what to do but I need to get together a plan of attack before I even think of going near my car with the PC. Keep the ideas coming I guess.
 
When you see CONTRIBUTING MEMBER in a sig that means they have purchased the e-book. Doing a search is helpful but it is no substitute for the e-book. I highly recommend the book.
 
breakneckvtec said:
So this is the deal, I have a few light surface scratches I want to get rid of, I need a recomendation for this. I have light swirls I want to eliminate so I need a suggestion for a paint cleaner/SMR.
Click to expand...



I think the previous posters (before the Meguiar's terminology digression) addressed your situation pretty well. Use either Eagle One Scratch remover or 3M Fine Cut Rubbing Compound for the few light surface scratches and either 3M SMR or 3M Finesse-It II for the swirls you have on the rest of your car. SMR's made by both 3M and Meguiar's are very very mild and will only remove light swirls.



Don't let the term "abrasive" scare you away. It is perfectly fine to clean/polish your car with an abrasive product twice a year. In fact, I think it's necessary in order to maintain the best depth and clarity of shine...especially if the blue on your car is of a darker shade. Meguiar's MPPC, 3M SMR, Cleansing Lotions from Pinnacle or P21S are all excellent polishes that will keep your paint in top condition.



I personally do a complete light polish on my cars twice a year (Finesse-It II)....do spot scratch removal on an ongoing basis as needed (Fine Cut Rubbing Compound)....and on a monthly or bi-monthly basis, apply a glaze right before waxing (Mother's Sealer/Glaze).



Does this help...or am I just adding to the confusion? :)



Tony
 
Aurora40 said:
I don't quite get the nitpicking. Do you mean Meguiar's is being dishonest? If they label everything as abrasive that has some abrasivness, then they'd have to label their car wash and foam applicators and everything else as abrasive too. Everything on earth is abrasive to some degree. So some reasonable distinction has to be made. MPPC falls below where they draw the line of what is reasonably considered abrasive.



To me it seems to make sense to draw the line at the point where the abrasives may have some negative impact. So products where the abrasive is high enough that you may need to think about how often you use it should be called abrasive. I'd say products like DACP and other products that can fix mild to medium paint defects would fall into this category. If a product has such a low level of abrasion that you could use it fairly frequently without any worries, then I'd say it should be considered non-abrasive. I'd say products like #9 and MPPC and SFP probably just barely fall into this category. I really can't imagine any harm coming from regular use of these products. But that's just my take on it.
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Well, I wouldn't use the term "dishonest", but it isn't exactly the whole truth. Some products have small amounts of fine abrasives in them, and I can understand their reasons for not wanting to mention them explicitly. Like Intermezzo though, I would like to know if a product contained even the finest compound so that I know what I'm using. I don't think that they should or even have to say that everything is abrasive, because they have no abrasiveness engineered into them. From what I recall from past discussion, pure water, pure soap, pure wax, etc, etc, isn't abrasive relative to paint because of the hardness differences between the materials. It's the dirt and impurities that cause problems by accident.... Anyway, what I meant by ignoring any claims of non-abrasive was that descriptions like that are becoming less important to me than knowing what the product actually is and what its intended job is, that's all.



You make an excellent point of mentioning how a product can be "virtually" non-abrasive though. I thought about this concept before (honest, really) of how some products are so mild that they can be used more frequently, but I think my brain hiccuped when it came to describing this concept in under 1000 words. :p
 
breakneckvtec, sorry for taking your thread off on a tangent like that.



I think Intermezzo covered it really well. :xyxthumbs Treat individual scratches separately from swirls all over the car, and start off with something mild like a swirl remover first and see how you like it. If that didn't work, then move up to something a little stronger (like DACP).
 
I apologize too Breakneck. Didn't mean to confuse you. I'm sure #9 would work just fine as a cleaner/glaze. You could use it whenever you wanted to clean the paint. I imagine 3M's SMR would be similarly flexible. They might be preferred over MPPC because #9 does seem to be milder, but also because it improves the gloss and depth because of it's glazing ability. MPPC is just a cleaner. So #9 is sort of like MPPC and #7 mixed together (sort of...). In one step it will provide cleaning and also laying down oils and such for better gloss. Then you can add some more with #7 or just top with a wax. Klasse AIO is also something that is mild enough to use often. It seems to have some pretty good cleaning power to it as well, but it doesn't do too much for swirls. So if you want to use AIO, use SMR to get rid of swirls, and then AIO for occasional cleaning and protection.



4DSC/Intermezzo, I see what you are saying. If they classified any product where they intentionally add something specifically for it's abrasiveness then maybe they should call it abrasive. I guess it tends to scare people away from products, though. You hit the nail right on the head about knowing what a product is supposed to do. This makes any other information pretty much superfluous. It seems like in about 50-90% of the newbie posts the main confusion is about what a product is intended to do.
 
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