In general, which auto makers (excluding the exotics as those super expensive cars have the special quality control above and beyond the more pedestrian models) are known for the quality and durable paint? Some auto makers such as Chrysler are said to take a short cut in the painting process which might result in the premature paint deterioration after the warranty is up.
OEM factory paint
- Thread starter Sir Clean
- Start date
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
I think they all have similar quality issues. Robots painting = less defects. Any time a human lays hands on something, there's bound to be issues. In the past, there's been certain car models that were notorious for specific problems, but generally, it's the technology that creates them, not the plant/manufacturer.
steelwind101
New member
Mercedes Benz are certantly not exotic and are used as taxis, ambulances in alot of the world and common has mud in lots of places. They have some pretty durable paint even on the not so good cars in recent years. Lots of there older cars seem to do very well with regard paintwork lasting.
How the Alabama Mercs hold up? Maybe they use the same process, there ML's built there certantly dident though!
I think there website talks about the procedures used such as ostrich feathers to on the paintwork and there use of water based ceramics etc. Got to get me one of those rotating "EMU" machines!
Mercedes - A-to-S - Home has some cool things including about there paintwork.
Geoff
How the Alabama Mercs hold up? Maybe they use the same process, there ML's built there certantly dident though!
I think there website talks about the procedures used such as ostrich feathers to on the paintwork and there use of water based ceramics etc. Got to get me one of those rotating "EMU" machines!
Mercedes - A-to-S - Home has some cool things including about there paintwork.
Geoff
There is only several Paint Manufactures that supply the entire industry. Dupont, Spies Hecker (which is owned by Dupont but used mostly by European car makers), and Standox which again is owned by Dupont and is mostly used on European models).
Certainly there are more Automotive paint manufactures than that but those I mentioned have the OEM market locked up. To be clear, the paint used in collision and autobody work (be it at a shop where they have their own mixing systems) or if you get it from the local Autobody Paint Supplier isn't the same as the OEM Paint.
They are applied, and cured differently so they have different characteristics.
MorBiD
Certainly there are more Automotive paint manufactures than that but those I mentioned have the OEM market locked up. To be clear, the paint used in collision and autobody work (be it at a shop where they have their own mixing systems) or if you get it from the local Autobody Paint Supplier isn't the same as the OEM Paint.
They are applied, and cured differently so they have different characteristics.
MorBiD
e30 all day
New member
can OEM paint be purchased at the dealer, is it worth it
I wouldn't believe so. I had a re-paint on my Audi done on the hood and they used "Spies Hecker" at the Dealer's Body Shop.
That Touch-up paint the Dealers sell in small bottles is usually only lacquer and while it may come close to matching it isn't the same paint used at the factory.
Don't get so caught up on OEM paint like you want to get what they used because it won't be possible to get that exact formula.
What I do is what most body shops do which is find out which paint (Spies Hecker, Standox, Dupont Chromabase, etc) was used at the factory and go from there.
All paint companies have several different "lines" of paint from "economy" to their "top of the line" stuff.
In the end all your really concerned about is two or three things when looking for paint for a car. You want the right type (lacquer, enamel, two part Base/Clear), the right color, and the third would be if it has additives like Pearl).
Once you pull the paint code you can get almost any paint to match.
That Touch-up paint the Dealers sell in small bottles is usually only lacquer and while it may come close to matching it isn't the same paint used at the factory.
Don't get so caught up on OEM paint like you want to get what they used because it won't be possible to get that exact formula.
What I do is what most body shops do which is find out which paint (Spies Hecker, Standox, Dupont Chromabase, etc) was used at the factory and go from there.
All paint companies have several different "lines" of paint from "economy" to their "top of the line" stuff.
In the end all your really concerned about is two or three things when looking for paint for a car. You want the right type (lacquer, enamel, two part Base/Clear), the right color, and the third would be if it has additives like Pearl).
Once you pull the paint code you can get almost any paint to match.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
MorBid said:
I can't see why anyone would need to know what brand of paint was used at the OEM level when they do refinishing? Can you explain....
Sure, it has to do with color match. Not every paint code found on every car can be matched by each Paint Manufacture. This doesn't come into play so much with Flat colors.
I've used Dupont Chromabase to re-finish parts on my Audi, the Audi Dealership used Spies Hecker when they did other parts and the factory used Glasurit paint originally in Germany when the car was made. But it's Flat Black so pretty much any one's will match (that's why I brought the car with that color).
Now when you take into account the much more wider variety of colors and add in Metallic's and Pearls you can come up with a color matching issue.
So sometimes it's a lot easier to use paint from the same company whose paint was on the vehicle in the first place.
Go to any Dealership that sells European Brands and they will usually use one of three paints (Spies Hecker, Standox, or Glasurit) and not say Dupont's Chromabase. That's because those are the three paint manufacturers used at the Assembly Plants.
Matching colors can be difficult and time consuming (time which isn't always billable). If your re-painting the entire car it doesn't matter what you use. But if repairing a spot on a panel or a whole panel it matters more than anything cause the customer will expect the repair to look as if nothing ever happened. Get the color wrong and it'll show, esp. on light colors.
I've used Dupont Chromabase to re-finish parts on my Audi, the Audi Dealership used Spies Hecker when they did other parts and the factory used Glasurit paint originally in Germany when the car was made. But it's Flat Black so pretty much any one's will match (that's why I brought the car with that color).
Now when you take into account the much more wider variety of colors and add in Metallic's and Pearls you can come up with a color matching issue.
So sometimes it's a lot easier to use paint from the same company whose paint was on the vehicle in the first place.
Go to any Dealership that sells European Brands and they will usually use one of three paints (Spies Hecker, Standox, or Glasurit) and not say Dupont's Chromabase. That's because those are the three paint manufacturers used at the Assembly Plants.
Matching colors can be difficult and time consuming (time which isn't always billable). If your re-painting the entire car it doesn't matter what you use. But if repairing a spot on a panel or a whole panel it matters more than anything cause the customer will expect the repair to look as if nothing ever happened. Get the color wrong and it'll show, esp. on light colors.
MorBid said:
That's why most shops will blend the new paint into the adjacent panel, so that the color mis-match will not be noticeable. The fact is, if you had the original paint, taken from the same container the car was painted with, the paint still would not match exactly after 6 months to a year. Even the curing process can change the shade of a color. Also, factory paint is not chemically cured on the car, it's baked on, something that usually can't be duplicated in the field.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
MorBid said:
Except for maybe a small hand full of colors (4 stage / color-shifting interference pigments) each one can be duplicated by any paint manufacturer (Akzo/PPG/SM/Dupont/BASF). Paint codes are more or less used as a reference point for a painter to *start* matching a color. Each color will requires tinting for each application. When a painter mixes paint, they don't take into account (or even search) for what manufacturer orginally was used at the OEM level.
If a painter can't get a color to match(after multiple spray out panels), many times they'll call their paint rep & get help from a tech on-site.
MorBid said:
Is your Audi Flat Black?
MorBid said:
It's not any easier to use say PPG than it is Sherman Williams when it comes to color matching. Just because a car line was painted with a certain brand of paint doesn't make it any easier for a painter to work with it if they also use that same brand of paint.
MorBid said:
Not really. You could and do find any paint line at any shop. One A/M line doesn't really go hand in hand with a certain OEM paint line. I know many high end body shops that actually use Akzo Nobel, which also a very high quality paint. Some painters actually say it's right in line with Spies. Azko/Sikkens isn't used at the OEM level either.
MorBid said:
Unless your repairing the center of a large panel, you'll need to blend color into adjacent panels(even solid black). Just because a painter uses the same paint brand that was used at the factory won't make it any easier/better.
When you refer to "billable" are you speaking of getting paid to mix/match paint? If so, every paint refinish estimating program (ADP/CCC/Mitchell) allows/calculates for up to ~2 spray out test panels to insure proper color match. If a painter still can't get it close from there, many insurance companies will allow for additional tint time on certain applications/colors.
Accumulator
Well-known member
IME Spiess Hecker is a) the hands-down best match for the Audi silver used on at least the D2 series A8/S8s (hardness, color match, metallic simularity, you name it).
I later heard from a reliable source that the S-H is what they use on those cars at the factory. Dunno if it's a coincidence or not (and yeah, I know, they're completely different products made for different application/curing processes).
FIWI, it's also the paint my guys do best with when blending some other silvers; it was like a miracle on the Mazda compared to the numerous other brands they'd tried, the only repainted areas I can't spot easily. For some reason that Mazda silver seems incredibly hard to match just right :nixweiss but the S-H worked great.
The S-H paint that's made for such repairs also seems to do the "melt-in to adjacent oe paintwork" thing better than other brands, *once the painter gets the hang of it*. I'm told there's a frustrating learning curve compared to Glasurit/etc. but once they get it right, well...they can satisfy *me*
OTOH, when I was playing with Porsches and Benzes, Glasurit seemed to work the best on those cars. And we won't even get into matching the ss metallic lacquer on the Jag
I later heard from a reliable source that the S-H is what they use on those cars at the factory. Dunno if it's a coincidence or not (and yeah, I know, they're completely different products made for different application/curing processes).
FIWI, it's also the paint my guys do best with when blending some other silvers; it was like a miracle on the Mazda compared to the numerous other brands they'd tried, the only repainted areas I can't spot easily. For some reason that Mazda silver seems incredibly hard to match just right :nixweiss but the S-H worked great.
The S-H paint that's made for such repairs also seems to do the "melt-in to adjacent oe paintwork" thing better than other brands, *once the painter gets the hang of it*. I'm told there's a frustrating learning curve compared to Glasurit/etc. but once they get it right, well...they can satisfy *me*
OTOH, when I was playing with Porsches and Benzes, Glasurit seemed to work the best on those cars. And we won't even get into matching the ss metallic lacquer on the Jag
No such thing as OEM paint except what's on the car...
Any of the major paint brands are fine; some are better than others of course.
Some colors/effects are just plain difficult regardless of brand. However, a good
painter will know what to do, when to do and how to do it; making the best use
of the products at hand. This should sound familiar.
Any of the major paint brands are fine; some are better than others of course.
Some colors/effects are just plain difficult regardless of brand. However, a good
painter will know what to do, when to do and how to do it; making the best use
of the products at hand. This should sound familiar.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Accumulator - paint matching is mostly dependent on the painter, not so much the paint. If your painter can produce flawless outcomes with XYZ paint, then more power to them. It doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. A real pro that knows their paint line/system car create the "blending illusion" perfectly. Out of all the shops I visit, each painter has their own favorite, kinda like detailers with their detailing products.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
HaHa - As soon as I hit the reply button, my e-mail ding dong rang with your post. You beat me by 2 seconds...
What's your favorite paint line BTW?
What's your favorite paint line BTW?
Accumulator
Well-known member
David Fermani said:
Well, yeah, no argument here. But it was simply impossible for either of the shops I use to match the MPV's silver correctly with anything other than the S-H (no matter how many times they tried tweaking it).
I wonder why I get the best trade-off between hardness and fragility with the S-H :think: Could just be that my painter clicks best with that brand, hence *I* am partial to it.
And yeah, also no argument (at *all*) on the painter being the final factor regarding the blending..I can *barely* tell with my good guy (that's on the Jag, and I'm really working at it with lights/etc.). Usually, there's *some* tell-tale difference in the metallic (that only I ever see); the painters are simply
that I can spot it. They say "yeah, that's where I blended, but *I* can't see how you know.