NXT topped over Zaino?

B

Bioman

New member
Is this possible? I am thinking it will work since both are synthetic waxes. Do you think this will look good and work well?



Anyone try it?



Thanks
 
That's a killer shine!



I don't think you'd need to use Z as a base to get that kind of result though. NXT by itself (with proper paint prep, of course) would look just fine....IMO.
 
I don't know what the benefit of topping Z with NXT is. Zaino is more reflective, as slick when first applied and maintains its slickness, and is probably more durable. Plus my gut feel is that the kaolin clay in NXT will remove some of the Zaino. This combo doesn't make sense to me.
 
Kaolin clay has many functional besides an abrasive.

Hydrolysed kaolin clay is nearly completely non-abrasive and used quite frequently as a dye expander for example.



NXT in itself is very reflective and would add some to the depth appearance on top of Zaino.



Are these two formulations compatable?

Will NXT or disrupt the Zaino crosslinking?

Would it really matter if it does?



All these type of questions can only be answered very trials like the one proposed by BioMan and others.
 
blkZ28Conv said:
Kaolin clay has many functional besides an abrasive.

Hydrolysed kaolin clay is nearly completely non-abrasive and used quite frequently as a dye expander for example.



NXT in itself is very reflective and would add some to the depth appearance on top of Zaino.



Are these two formulations compatable?

Will NXT or disrupt the Zaino crosslinking?

Would it really happen if it does?



All these type of questions can only be answered very trials like the one proposed by BioMan and others.
Click to expand...



How would anyone know if NXT prevents crosslinking or be able to determine compatibility? Wiping one product on top of another and looking at the results tells you very little. Even less if one doesn't understand the some of the chemistry behind the products.



Re: kaolin clay, I've been doing a lot of research on this stuff, especially with its use in car appearance products. I feel my laypersons understanding of it is pretty good.
 
Hey SK - read the thread - I think he was saying that the NXT coupled with the polishing pad and some pressure removed any Zaino - basically saying it was all pure NXT (I think the mini owner even joked about selling his 80 dollar zaino kit) -
 
bretfraz said:
How would anyone know if NXT prevents crosslinking or be able to determine compatibility? Wiping one product on top of another and looking at the results tells you very little. Even less if one doesn't understand the some of the chemistry behind the products.
Click to expand...



Direct observation with known perimeters. Zaino alone longevity (durability) for said user compared with NXT topped Zaino would be one such observation. Hazy appearance and patchy beading patterns after washing would be another direct observation of incompatibility.



bretfraz said:
Re: kaolin clay, I've been doing a lot of research on this stuff, especially with its use in car appearance products. I feel my laypersons understanding of it is pretty good.
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Likewise. That why I mentioned Kaolin's multi-functionality.

Until Mike P answers some of our very intellectual questions (no carnuaba but "synthetic wax, Kaolin's function, NXT's cross-linking ability or inability, etc.). Until then we are just having good old time Autopian discussions and exchanging of ideas about products. :xyxthumbs
 
Btw, If I actually choose to put NXT over my Zaino coatings then it will all be by hand. No polishers, buffer's, etc.



When I was looking at the link, I noticed that he said the combination of the machine buffer, pressure and time probably got rid of all the Zaino layers while the NXT was being applied. Does this mean that NXT has abrasive qualities in the liquid?



Thanks.
 
That means that anytime you use a buffer, you are creating a level of friction against the surface greater than that which is achieved by "normal" hand application, so it is mechanically removing it, not chemically.
 
blkZ28Conv said:
Until Mike P answers some of our very intellectual questions (no carnauba but "synthetic wax, Kaolin's function, NXT's cross-linking ability or inability, etc.). Until then we are just having good old time Autopian discussions and exchanging of ideas about products. :xyxthumbs
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This is the hard part. How to explain things and how to answer questions without discussing proprietary information and most important without going over my head.



I isn't no chemist you know and the chemists actually have work to do, so I can't wear out my welcome with them by asking them questions.



In the big picture, I think it will always come down to using products that look good in your eyes. That's what's most important.



Mike
 
Bioman said:
Btw, If I actually choose to put NXT over my Zaino coatings then it will all be by hand. No polishers, buffer's, etc.



When I was looking at the link, I noticed that he said the combination of the machine buffer, pressure and time probably got rid of all the Zaino layers while the NXT was being applied. Does this mean that NXT has abrasive qualities in the liquid?



Thanks.
Click to expand...



Completely, Absolutely, non-abrasive. This product will not abrade and it will not scratch.



Mike
 
Greg said:
That means that anytime you use a buffer, you are creating a level of friction against the surface greater than that which is achieved by "normal" hand application, so it is mechanically removing it, not chemically.
Click to expand...



The above is correct. For many years back in the old days, people would use products like #7 Sealer and Reseal Glaze, (Now called Show Car Glaze), to remove fine imperfections out of soft paints like solvent-borne lacquers and enamels. There are no abrasives in #7, the ability to remove the defects came from elbow grease and terry cloth.



The little loops that make up the nap in a piece of terry cloth act as the abrasive. The trade secret oils in the #7 act as a lubricant to cushion the abrasive action of the nap.



Think about it. The nap of terry cloth is not exactly what I would call sandpaper, in fact it is a very gentle form of an abrasive. As gentle as it is however, it still offered the user just the right amount of aggressiveness to remove small particles of paint in an effort to smooth-out and level a soft finish.



Polishing paint is an Art Form, it’s requires the human element of care. You cannot simply Wax-on, Wax-off, (to borrow a phrase used in the movie, “The Karate Kid�), and expect a flawless finish, unless you’re starting with a flawless finish.



So the point is, your application material, and the method of application, whether its elbow grease, (pushing hard), or a machine, can influence and affect the cleaning, and/or abrading characteristics of your product.



If you take a 100% cotton, terry cloth towel and rub it aggressively against an otherwise flawless black finish, you will undoubtedly instill scratches. If you take that same towel and carefully wipe off some quick detailer that you have misted on, chances are good you will not instill scratches.



What’s the difference?



The W-8006 foam polishing pad, (or any company’s equivalent pad), oscillating under pressure with anyone’s liquid, creamy product will have a cleaning effect, at least to some degree.



That’s all.



Mike
 
Now wouldn't this be interesting?



So far I have not tried putting anyting on top of NXT. The results from NXT have been so good, (for me at least), that I haven't even thought about trying to improve upon them.



It's back to the plateau, or maximum potential issue. One the max potential has been reached, another application of a product will not improve it.



But... on my next detail I could try it.



What combination should I try?



Z2 with ZFZ, or Z5 with ZFZ? :nixweiss











Mike
 
Mike Phillips said:
Now wouldn't this be interesting?



So far I have not tried putting anyting on top of NXT. The results from NXT have been so good, (for me at least), that I haven't even thought about trying to improve upon them.



It's back to the plateau, or maximum potential issue. One the max potential has been reached, another application of a product will not improve it.



But... on my next detail I could try it.



What combination should I try?



Z2 with ZFZ, or Z5 with ZFZ? :nixweiss











Mike
Click to expand...



While there is something to be said for trying out new things, I totally agree with you about paint reaching its maximum ability. From pictures of your work, I would venture to guess that 99% of the cars have reached their maximum capability and the truth is, while some products might alter the appearence ever so slightly, its not going to be a night and day difference. If you are willing to go to the effort of Zaino'ing a car, I think having NXT under it is simply a futile step. If there is any oils in NXT, which from my very very limited experimentation of which, I would say there are, Zaino just isn't going to bond. It seems like just a silly step and while it may be worth it just for grins, its not a logical placement of the NXT wax.



Off topic some- I am have some Zaino now so I will be trying it out on my cars. From my understanding, Z5 looks "better" on darker colored cars, while Z2 is "better" on lighter colored cars. Because I haven't tried Zaino yet, I cannot accurately say if this is true.



Back to my whole philiosophy, prep it to the best of its abilities and frankly, you can put anything on top and its going to look fantastic, its just preferences.
 
blkZ28Conv said:


Are these two formulations compatable?

Will NXT or disrupt the Zaino crosslinking?

Would it really happen if it does?



.
Click to expand...



Wouldn't you think that if NXT was applied over Zaino that was a couple weeks old the Zaino crosslinking would have been completed thus not possibly effected by NXT. Unless crosslinking can be reversed?
 
Greg said:
If there is any oils in NXT, which from my very very limited experimentation of which, I would say there are, Zaino just isn't going to bond.
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In the 'Does wax bond?' thread, a few of us concluded that most surface care products do indeed bond... but not necessarily crosslink or change. If there was no bonding, it wouldn't stick to the paint at all, no? By this definition, Zaino does stick to oily surfaces, though to a lesser degree. I've used it on top of oily polishes and had fine results - Sal most likely recommends Dawn washing for the guaranteed, strongest bonds. Perhaps someone should do a test comparing the durability of Z with and without oil.



My 2 cents...
 
groebuck, ahhhh, interesting...had to do a double take on that one. My thinking was since NXT is a LSP (did I get the acronym right ?), I'd try it over Zaino. NXT would be applied by hand.



How's your TL doin' ? I got nailed doin' 85 in a 65 lately :D
 
SK2003TypeS said:
groebuck, ahhhh, interesting...had to do a double take on that one. My thinking was since NXT is a LSP (did I get the acronym right ?), I'd try it over Zaino. NXT would be applied by hand.



How's your TL doin' ? I got nailed doin' 85 in a 65 lately :D
Click to expand...



I'd leave a section alone with only Zaino. This way, you'll be able to know if NXT removed Z by comparing the two after a few weeks. Based on my current knowledge and experience of the product, it should. My prediction is that the Z + NXT side will not bead/have any slickness as plain-Z keeps going.



But what do I know... it never hurts to try, though. When was the last time you applied Zaino?
 
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