Novice "How-To"

[Tarik]

Thanks in advance for any tips/advice...



I bought a new black Audi (the agony...!) that was marred by the dealer who used an oribiting abbrasive polish on the new finish. Many, many $'s later it looks much better but I have a maintenance problem (it has not looked that good since the detailer did his job, despite my best efforts), and I would love some advice on how to keep my black car looking good.



I have been applying Zaino Z-2 with the accelerator since a professional detailer using Zaino products applied the first coat. I wash the car with Z-7 car wash. I have applied Zaino about 3 times since October. Nothing else besides their anti-static post-wash spray.



My results are less than stellar. So I asked some good friends what to do and although I've got a basic idea on what I need to do, I'm lost on the exact products to purchase and the exact methods.



So, I am purchasing a PC7424 this week. OK. Also, I know I need to purchase Lake County pads. Fine.

The rest is a little fuzzy.



-Which pads?

I was recommended the White LC pad. But they make so many variations...



-Which products to use?

Someone recommended Meguiars #83 and #80 to polish. Do I need to do this to a relatively new car? I thought all I needed to do was wax the car? Do I polish AND wax each time? I'm lost.

Wax recommended is Maguiars NXT, Klasse SG or Menzerna FMJ. Can I wax without polishing?

And what products do I use after a basic wash to keep things looking good (without having to wax/polish all over again).

For wheels I was told to use Westleys Bleche Wite. Is it acleaner or a dressing. What dressing would you use?



This is all the info I have. I have no idea what some of it means, when/why to apply it, or what I need to do to keep things looking good, and how often this process needs to happen.



I'm an amateur detailer and I truly enjoy doing it so I want to learn, but all this information is getting confusing and it would be great to have a pro help me decipher all this info.



Here's a pic of the problem child.

 

[the other pc]

Hey Tarik,



Congrats on the new Audi, very cool ride.

... My results are less than stellar...

The problem is that the dealer's "detailer" never fixed it in the first place so no matter what you do for maintenance it will never look right.

... Which products to use? ...

Everybody has their personal favorites for getting the job done but which specific ones will work for you will depend on your paint and the severity of damage.

... Someone recommended Meguiars #83 and #80 to polish. Do I need to do this to a relatively new car?

You do if it's been swirled up by some idiot dealer.

... Wax recommended is Maguiars NXT, Klasse SG or Menzerna FMJ. Can I wax without polishing?

once you get the swirls out you can.

... For wheels I was told to use Westleys Bleche Wite. Is it acleaner or a dressing. What dressing would you use?

Westleys is for tires, not wheels. Different wheel dressings look different. It's a personal thing depending on the look you prefer.





Since your car has a Rusnak plate I assume you're in SoCal? If so I'd highly recommend taking one of the classes http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=67157 ]DavidB gives in San Diego[/url] and Meguiar's gives in Irvine.





PC.

 

[Accumulator]

Tarik- A few random thoughts from a fellow Audi owner:



Audi clear is pretty hard. It takes somewhat aggressive products to remove marring and fairly good skills to end up with a truly flawless finish.



FWIW, I never found #83 all that user-friendly myself. #80 is good, but it's generally too mild to fully correct marring on an Audi. That might not be a huge issue since #80 does a little hiding too...which leads me to:



Sealants like Zaino don't really hide much, so it's important to get/keep things marring free. Since that can be a tall order, you might want to consider a glaze/wax approach, which will hide imperfections much better. #80, then a glaze, then a "heavy" carnauba like Collinite might be an approach worth trying. I don't want you to drive yourself crazy trying to get the black vehicle perfect enough for Zaino or the Klasse twins, for instance.



I'd absolutely recommend that you get a foamgun to use when washing. Not marring the finish while washing is one of the most critical (and often-overlooked) aspects of detailing and it's a lot harder than most people ever imagine.



Oh, and I wouldn't use the Bleche Wite. There are better choices by far, a wheel/tire cleaner from Eagle One or Meguiar's would be a good step up.



Oh#2, what PC said about one of David's/Meguiar's classes :xyxthumbs

 

[Tarik]

So...I'll go with the glaze/wax approach, though I'll admit I'm still extremely confused re. what exact product to use, when to apply it and how often it's required.

Most of the swirling/marring was taken care of by the professional detailer. The car has never been perfect, but it's much better now.

I guess I'm asking if there's a set of steps/products that with consistent and occasional use, will keep the black looking great.

I purchased the PC7424 and it should be here next week.

That said, I'll be purchasing pads tonight and I'm not sure which ones to buy.

I'll assume Maguiars #80 as a polish, and Collinite as a wax. How often do I apply these (and how..use the PC machine?)? Which pads do I use? I've heard carnubas don't hold up very well to black cars...?

 

[chml17l]

Before you do anything else, I would definitely recommend downloading David B's free detailing guide.



Autopia Detailing Guide



This will help answer many questions and get you headed in the correct direction.

 

[Tarik]

Done.

I will read this info. Hopefully this will shed some light on things. The more advice I'm getting, the more confusing things get...I'm sure this will help.

Thank you.

Tarik

 

[Accumulator]

Tarik- yeah, this stuff can get confusing and often (IMO) unnecessarily so.



The #80 is a mildly abrasive polish that leaves some stuff behind (said stuff will help hide remaining flaws). You'd use it when you notice more scratches/swirls/ (i.e., *marring*) than you'd like. The PC with a standard "polishing pad" should work fine. You work the #80 until it starts to lose it's green/brown color (becomes sorta clear) but not so long that it dries.



There are a number of glazes that are commonly available: 3M Imperial Hand Glaze (IHG) and the Meguiar's ones: #5/#3/#81/#7 in the pro line (listed in order of my preference with regard to user-friendliness) and Deep Crystal Step #2 which is often available in auto parts stores. Once you seal the glaze in with some wax you shouldn't have to reapply it for a while (watch to see when the marring reappears, that's the clue you need to reglaze). Many (most) glazes can be applied by PC.



For a "heavy wax" I'd recommend something from Collinite like their 845 (thick semi-liquid) or my favorite 476S (paste). I think you'll find these hold up pretty well even on a black vehicle. It's not like you really *need* to use a sealant, despite what some people might want you to think Reapply when the beading characteristics start to change in an obvious way or whenever you have the inclination.

 

[Tarik]

Thanks!

I agree that things get suprisingly complicated. I spent some time reading the Autopia Detailing Guide and a phone call to Classic Motoring Accessories put me somewhat at ease.

I understood now the sequence to be:

1. Polish

2. Glaze

3. Wax

I had no idea this was necessary.

I had to order polishing pads and new products because I realized ALL I had was Zaino polishing sealants. Not one glaze or wax in my arsenal. No wonder my car has not shined since I bought it -it hasn't had one single coat of wax since day one.

I had no idea Zaino WASN'T a wax, or that I needed one for that matter (if using Zaino).

I learned the Lake County pad colors correspond to different polishing/compound and finishing compounds.

Yellow - Aggressive (hard polishing)

Orange - Multi-Purpose (again, hard -not mild)

White - Applicator (apply mild polish, glaze and waxes)

Black - Glaze (mild and can be used to remove glaze or non-abbrassive polish)

Red - Finishing for final waxing, etc. Final removal pad.

So I spent some $ at Classic Motoring Accessories.

I purchased their kit # VPGF-KIT which includes white, black and red pads. It also comes with the backing plate I'll need for my new PC7424 and a 6" counterbalance weight.

I also purchased the MENZERA CAR CARE KIT ($70) - it consits of wash soap, Final Polish2, Touch Glaze and FMJ, as well as some drying cloths, etc.

Lastly, I bought the Menzera Tire/Wheel cleaner and a brush to get inside the wheels/tough spots - oh I also bought some 808 Vinyl protectant for the tires/interior (and my wifes Carbiolet convertible roof).

$207 for the Menzerna products/pads! Ouch!

Plus the $127 for the PC, but I'm glad I did it. Long overdue.

I think I have a pretty good understanding on what I need to do and I'm really looking forward to it next weekend!

Tarik

 

[Accumulator]

Tarik- Not to get you second-guessing yourself, or throw cold water on your expectations, but using Zaino isn't a reason for a car to *not* look good. Generally, Zaino can replace a wax...think of sealants like Zaino as being "synthetic waxes". The only problem (and I'm using that word loosely) with Zaino is that it reflects exactly what the panel looks like, which is primarily determined by the prep that preceded it.



So if you prep very well, Zaino will look great. No need for a wax, just the Zaino. But that "if you prep very well" part is what catches a lot of people. Perfect prep is tough and any imperfections will show as *some* kind of less-than-swell appearance issues. An imperfectly prepped finish, which is pretty common even among detailing fanatics, will usually look better with the glaze (fills/hides imperfections) and wax (ditto) simply because they do *not* merely reflect what they're covering the way Zaino does.



And after all that...the FMJ is more like Zaino than it is like a wax, at least IMO. It's another "synthetic wax" type product, sorta similar to the UPP I use on my S8. But at least it should work fine with the glaze, which oughta make a difference.



The Menzerna FPII is good stuff, but it's *very* mild. You'll have to see how it works out for you, you might need something more aggressive. NO way does it remove any significant marring on Audi clear for me, at least not without a rotary. I predict you *are* gonna need something more aggressive



There won't be any functional difference between the black and red pads. The clear on Audis is too tough for any difference between them to matter. I wouldn't use a pad for removal.



Just for the sake of intellectual curiosity, you might try this: after prepping with the FPII, do *one panel* with the Zaino and do the rest of the vehicle with the glaze/FMJ approach. See how the two different approaches compare.

 

[Tarik]

I really appreciate your advice.

Audi S8? - WOW! :drool:

The process I've been following (loosely) is not within any margin that has been suggested - so I honestly think I've been going about things the "wrong" way.

One thing is certain - a good polish and glaze will really help. I have been washing (poorly - substandard mits, dirty Absorbers to dry...) and in some cases I'll apply Z2 or Z5 depending on how I feel that day -meaning there's no rationale. Growing more and more frustrated with my results. Not sure if it's from the damage the dealer did or my own inadequacies. Regardless, I thought the professional detailer I hired at the tune of $400 would have eliminated swirling/marring. Guess not as it's still there (and if he couldn't eliminate them, I'm deffinately no pro...)

I believe now I have a very good idea re. the polishing aspect and how glazing will help prep for eith Zaino or wax. I'll start off with the polish I bought - I'll start very mild and see if the results make me happy. I probably won't do one panel Zaino/the other FMJ-I'll just stick with one this time and do the other the next time.

I'll use the red pad to apply the products as you recommended.

Both the products and the machine have been shipped, so I expect next weekend will be 'the one' where I'll put all this to the test.

Out of curiosity, once I go through this process, Polish, Glaze, Wax - would I need to Glaze the next time (say in 1.5 months), before adding more FMJ or Zaino...?

 

[chml17l]

Tarik- Zaino Z2 isn't really designed to be used over a glaze. The oils/fillers from the glaze won't allow the Zaino to bond correctly to the paint. I'm not saying you can't use it, it's just that your Z2 protection probably won't last very long.



If you still want to use the Menzerna glaze I'd stick with the FMJ as the final sealant. The Menzerna package you have was designed to be used together as a system. Zaino doesn't technically make a "glaze" unless you kind of consider Z5 as one.

 

[Tarik]

Thanks - good to know!

After the frustration and unanswered questions regarding the Zaino product line, I decided to go full-bore on the Menzerna line since it's so highly recommended here and works together, one step at a time.

I'm really glad I purchased the kit and got the advice from this board.

Very knowledgable people and solid advice I can use.

The Autopia Detailing guide is so extensive it'll probably take a month to read the whole thing. Very good info there too.

I'll be using the PC7424 for the first time ever next weekend-looking forward to it, but I'm a little timid/spooked - I've never used a machine on my own cars. Any tips/advice for a serious beginner would be great.

Thanks!

 

[Accumulator]

Tarik- Best advice I can give to an Audi owner who's about to use the PC for the first time is: just use common sense and don't expect miracles



I honestly can't imagine somebody damaging the paint on a newish Audi using the PC/FPII/polishing pad combo. Try to *not* let polish dry on the surface, wipe it off while it's still a little wet.



Don't hesitate to turn the PC *up*; I do almost all of my polishing on 6. Try to stay off the clear anodized aluminum trim that all Audis seem to have these days.

 

[Tarik]

Will do!

Bad news - the Menzerna products are on backorder and didn't ship out with the rest of the stuff. Hope it still makes it here by next weekend.

I love this little Audi, but this car is just my "practice run" anyhow, as I'm really saving for an RS4!

And rest assured, it won't be in black!

Got any pix of your S8? That's an evil car. Thumbsup!

 

[Accumulator]

Tarik- I've never got any pics of the S8 uploaded. Have a few of it immediately after the deer incident (see "Audi S8 vs. Deer" in the Car and Driver forum ) that'd be worth putting up some day. It's silver/black and debadged so I dunno how impressive it'd look...just an anonymous silver sedan.