No flaming please ... Acrylic vs the rest

Hey guys thanks for the feedback. I understand some of you mentioned that it is difficult to comment due to the fact that different birds and the different bird droppings will have different effect on the car, but what we are discussing here is the general observation whether acrylic products have an edge over the rest. So far it seems like many other products do perform as well against bird dropping etching.



Scottwax said:
I normally have 2-3 layers (or probably more accurately, applications) of carnaubas on my car and have yet to have a bird bomb etch my paint where it couldn't be removed with nothing stronger than Vanilla Moose.
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Hi Scott, pretty surprise that carnauba wax can also hold up against the etching of bird dropping.
 
I don't think ANY wax or sealant will protect against rock chips.



Nor do I think (IMHO) any of them make such a claim.



Jim
 
Correct me if i am wrong, but didnt liquid glass mention something about resisting chips or scratches?



Last time i read the back label was around 1987 or so,.....i was 17 :)
 
Gen2 said:
Hi Scott, pretty surprise that carnauba wax can also hold up against the etching of bird dropping.
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At least based on what birds in my area eat and excrete, it seems to protect just fine.
 
IMO if you want a bird poop resistant carnauba try Collinite 845-it was designed for powerlines and birds love powerlines ;)
 
Black240SX said:
I expect White95Max to report here next week on his pH measurements of bird poop.
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That's a good idea. I think we have a pH-measuring instrument in the aquatics lab where I work. I'm going to ask my boss about whether I could measure it somehow. But how would I attain a sample of bird s#!T?



We need a pet bird in the lab, so I can test its s#!t after feeding it various foods. :)
 
I don't know. I would assume that I'd have to spray it with a few drops of water, and pick up the whole solution with a dropper. Then somehow calculate the pH of the s#!t, taking into account the dilution with water.

I'm sure there's a way to do it. :)
 
wannafbody said:
IMO if you want a bird poop resistant carnauba try Collinite 845-it was designed for powerlines and birds love powerlines ;)
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Pontman43 said:
What about a gun?
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LOL You guys are so funny and yet resouceful...#845, not a bad idea for carnauba wax.
 
GSRstilez said:
His argument lacks a controlled experiment.





What if that first bird chewed down some oranges, coffee beans, and alcohol making some lethally acidic s#!t? What if the second bird just had some bread and water?





How about he stops forming an opinion about two completely different events. A proper experiment involves far more than noting bird s#!t hitting your car at a supermarket on two separate occasions. Even a simple experiment like:



-50/50 IPA wipedown on the hood x 2

-Apply Zaino/FMJ to respective sides, then remove after mfr's noted dry times

-Allow to cure for 24 hrs without any moisture touching them

-Then, you could start forming opinions...





Until then, his finding are worth ZERO to me.
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actually, i was the one who posted that comment in MCF. Just to make my position really clear, it's my POV based on experience I've had with Zaino, Meg's (NXT and Gold Class), Autoglym, and a number of Japanese products.



You're right that bird poo comes in all kinds of...er.. varieties, depending on the nature of their diet. That said, mynahs, pigeons (ESPECIALLY pigeons) and crows deliver the most corrosive payloads among the various kinds of birds we get here in Singapore.



Based on same place, same 'kind' of poo, i.e. contains a milky liquid, some clear liquid, and a crapload (pardon the pun) of red particles (approx .5 mm in dia), the same crap (again, no pun intended) penerated right through my Zaino coat and into my paintwork within an hour of it being parked in the noon sun (aprpox 36 deg cel). I had gone straight to my groomer's right after that, in the hope that the right products would be able to get it out, but no such luck. QD was tried first, followed by scratch remover, swirl mark removers, and compounds. My paint was ruined, and the stain stayed on all the way to the day I sold my car. I had at least 2 layers of Zaino on it (Z1+Z5+Z2+Z2+Z6 -- we didn't have Z2Pro or Z8 last year). Didn't happen once, but several times, involving tree sap and water marks.



I even made the switch over to Glare in the hope that it would offer me better protection, but no such luck.



I got my new car in July 05, a yellow Evolution IX GT, and proceeded to Zaino it the day after collection. Again, I got bombed, this time while driving, and having learnt from past experience, I pulled off the highway into a slip road, parked by the side of the road with hazard lights on, and cleaned the goop right off. Since then, I tried a number of products (soft99 stuff, CarGlo, High Glaze99, etc) before finding out about Autopia and through this forum learnt about Klasse and The Perfect Shine, along with different kinds of waxes.



I made the switch over to Klasse a few months back, and I've never looked back from acrylic -based systems. With just AIO and 2 coats of SG, the car survived a 2.5 hour trip up to Malacca (a state in our neighbouring country, Malaysia), where along the way it it was subjected to a generous helping of bug jam in the noon sun. By the time I got to my destination, I got the jam right off using nothing more than my water mitt and water. Not even detergent. And there wasn't even the hint of a stain.



Since then, my car being a daily driver and parked daily in an industrial area, has been subjected to generous doses of industrial fallout in morning dew, acid rain, bird bombs (what, birds like yellow???), tree sap (the result of a trade off between a scorching shift knob and tree sap), and other contaminants, and to this day has not had a SINGLE stain. Without fail, I've always been able to wipe off the contaminants with either water, or just a bit of autoglym SRP at the very worst, leaving no stain whatsoever.



Recently, I made the switch over to a hybrid system involving both Menzerna's FPII, FTG, FMJ, HGAS, and Klasse's AIO and SG, and have found that an even high level of protection can be achieved. A case in point, same kind of bird poo, exposed to the afternoon sun (32 to 34 deg Cel) for 3 hours yesterday, and the stuff ended up baked SOLID. And it came right off, using just water and a wash mitt.



I'm no bird poo expert, but I've never had a stain since I used Klasse and Menzerna, while Zaino and Meg's NXT couldn't hold up in the past and present. I have clients who are on Zaino and Meg's who get their cars professionally done at our local detailers, who have since made the switch to Klasse/Menzerna and have sworn that they never cease to be impressed by the protection offered by the twins.



Again, let me state that while the tests are largely unscientific, empirical evidence given similar conditions and locations seems to show that acrylic does offer better protection against most contaminants.
 
Scottwax said:
I honestly don't think how long bird bombs stay on the paint matters once they dry. It is when the dookie is wet that it causes damage. I've intentionally left them on for 3-4 days with no damage at all.



I normally have 2-3 layers (or probably more accurately, applications) of carnaubas on my car and have yet to have a bird bomb etch my paint where it couldn't be removed with nothing stronger than Vanilla Moose. This includes the Celica I had when I first started detailing, my Accord and now my Mazda (which happens to be black). The only bird poop etching on my car was there when I got the car and I know for a fact it hadn't been waxed in at least 2 years.



In fact, I can only recall one instance with a regular customer's car where there has ever been any etching after I began taking care of their cars and I was able to remove it with Optimum polish and a polishing pad.



I recently washed a regular's black 740 that has its hood covered in bird bombs. It has a single application of OCW and 2 weeks prior, I had also tried out Zaino Z8 on it the car. Zero etching and the bird bombs had been there about a week, according to the owner.



:nixweiss
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Likewise, I've found that Pinnacle Souveran and soft99 Authentic series of carnauba waxes have a good resistance to bird poo. I'd still go on with carnauba if not for the fact that it doesn't last more than a few weeks in our hot and humid weather, compounded by the fact that I live near an industrial area (lots of fallout) and park the car outdoors.



That said, for special occassions (e.g. weddings, etc), I still doll up the car with a nice coat of PS, and never fail to get compliments for the beautiful shine. :woot2:



With a busier schedule these days, I've found that a good wash followed by HGAS or SG brings the look back to a brilliant state, while giving me the assurance that nothing is going to get through that acrylic armor.
 
ghoonk said:
I have clients who are on Zaino and Meg's who get their cars professionally done at our local detailers, who have since made the switch to Klasse/Menzerna and have sworn that they never cease to be impressed by the protection offered by the twins.
Click to expand...



Hi bro ghoonk, nice to see you responding here. So you are actually selling Klasse and Menzerna products in Singapore ?
 
ghoonk said:
Recently, I made the switch over to a hybrid system involving both Menzerna's FPII, FTG, FMJ, HGAS, and Klasse's AIO and SG
Click to expand...



Are all the products listed in this hybrid system applied to the same car?!



If so, what's the order in which you apply this system? I'm curious where the AIO falls into this procedure.
 
ghoonk said:
actually, i was the one who posted that comment in MCF. Just to make my position really clear, it's my POV based on experience I've had with Zaino, Meg's (NXT and Gold Class), Autoglym, and a number of Japanese products.



You're right that bird poo comes in all kinds of...er.. varieties, depending on the nature of their diet. That said, mynahs, pigeons (ESPECIALLY pigeons) and crows deliver the most corrosive payloads among the various kinds of birds we get here in Singapore.



Based on same place, same 'kind' of poo, i.e. contains a milky liquid, some clear liquid, and a crapload (pardon the pun) of red particles (approx .5 mm in dia), the same crap (again, no pun intended) penerated right through my Zaino coat and into my paintwork within an hour of it being parked in the noon sun (aprpox 36 deg cel). I had gone straight to my groomer's right after that, in the hope that the right products would be able to get it out, but no such luck. QD was tried first, followed by scratch remover, swirl mark removers, and compounds. My paint was ruined, and the stain stayed on all the way to the day I sold my car. I had at least 2 layers of Zaino on it (Z1+Z5+Z2+Z2+Z6 -- we didn't have Z2Pro or Z8 last year). Didn't happen once, but several times, involving tree sap and water marks.



I even made the switch over to Glare in the hope that it would offer me better protection, but no such luck.



I got my new car in July 05, a yellow Evolution IX GT, and proceeded to Zaino it the day after collection. Again, I got bombed, this time while driving, and having learnt from past experience, I pulled off the highway into a slip road, parked by the side of the road with hazard lights on, and cleaned the goop right off. Since then, I tried a number of products (soft99 stuff, CarGlo, High Glaze99, etc) before finding out about Autopia and through this forum learnt about Klasse and The Perfect Shine, along with different kinds of waxes.



I made the switch over to Klasse a few months back, and I've never looked back from acrylic -based systems. With just AIO and 2 coats of SG, the car survived a 2.5 hour trip up to Malacca (a state in our neighbouring country, Malaysia), where along the way it it was subjected to a generous helping of bug jam in the noon sun. By the time I got to my destination, I got the jam right off using nothing more than my water mitt and water. Not even detergent. And there wasn't even the hint of a stain.



Since then, my car being a daily driver and parked daily in an industrial area, has been subjected to generous doses of industrial fallout in morning dew, acid rain, bird bombs (what, birds like yellow???), tree sap (the result of a trade off between a scorching shift knob and tree sap), and other contaminants, and to this day has not had a SINGLE stain. Without fail, I've always been able to wipe off the contaminants with either water, or just a bit of autoglym SRP at the very worst, leaving no stain whatsoever.



Recently, I made the switch over to a hybrid system involving both Menzerna's FPII, FTG, FMJ, HGAS, and Klasse's AIO and SG, and have found that an even high level of protection can be achieved. A case in point, same kind of bird poo, exposed to the afternoon sun (32 to 34 deg Cel) for 3 hours yesterday, and the stuff ended up baked SOLID. And it came right off, using just water and a wash mitt.



I'm no bird poo expert, but I've never had a stain since I used Klasse and Menzerna, while Zaino and Meg's NXT couldn't hold up in the past and present. I have clients who are on Zaino and Meg's who get their cars professionally done at our local detailers, who have since made the switch to Klasse/Menzerna and have sworn that they never cease to be impressed by the protection offered by the twins.



Again, let me state that while the tests are largely unscientific, empirical evidence given similar conditions and locations seems to show that acrylic does offer better protection against most contaminants.
Click to expand...







Your key statement was in the last sentence...."largely unscientific".





Let's break down the "look" of things...



Water looks like rubbing alcohol...not the same thing...

Wolfgang Tire Gel looks like Turbo Wax Tire Gel...not the same thing...

Klasse SG looks like cake icing...not the same thing...





What I am getting at is "looks are decieving". Just because something "looks" the same, doesn't mean it is. A true test would be to take a sample and have it lab tested, but I agree with you that this does not reflect true life...



If Menzerna works for you, great, it works for me too. However, I would be hesitant to knock Zaino for protection. In independent tests I have found Zaino to last longer, but Klasse to protect a bit better. However, these tests were purely observations which lacked a controlled experiment, so I use them for my basis, not a new thread stating "Klasse protects better than Zaino".



In closing, I would say to just keep all of this on the hush hush unless you have good evidence to back up your opnions. It will just save everyone from a flame war.
 
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