No. 4 on GuruReports and not a single user?

Smoker said:
I found a gallon of Megs #26 fpr $9.95 .. now wouldn't I have been dumb not to buy it ?





Cheap + Good = :xyxthumbs





Basically I'm not convinced something expensive (such as Zaino) is worth the money you have to lay out just to make yer vehicle shiny.



I guess it's a law of diminishing returns for me.



Me ?



S100 = $15 bucks = Happy Camper.



Bit like the maniacs thats go out n spend 10 grand on a CD player when my $200 Panasonic sounds just as good.



Yes, that #26 is a good deal. However, I am not sure that I buy your analogy that your $200 CD player sounds as good as a $10,000 player. I guess I take exception to that since I am a bit of an audiophile.



Anyway, by that analogy, if you only drive in the city, is the Hyundai Accent as good as a Porsche 996? I don't think so. Yes, it does the same thing, but not in the same style.



I am not trying to flame. My point is that everyone has his/her own price point of diminishing returns. For someone with different tastes and different incomes, the price point may be higher or lower. Cheap = good, sure, but cheaper = better is not always the case.



So, someone who buys Z and loves it has just as valid a point as some who uses TW and loves it. After all, as long as each can derive the same pleasure level, why shoot down the next guy who wants to spend more or less.



That's what Autopia is all about, after all, isn't it? Helping everyone to achieve the level of shine they want.:xyxthumbs
 
Can anyone post a rundown of the top ten (or the whole list)? After seeing what products they tested I'm curirous to see where Lemon Pledge landed:D



Also I find it interesting that they tested only AIO not SG. SG adds most of the shine and protection and would seem to be a beter pick for a sealer/wax test.
 
I think they did test SG. They did one layer of AIO and then one layer of SG and that was their klasse panel.
 
I think reprinting the list on Autopia without permission from the gurus would be some kind of copyright infringement. Not sure, but I'm not going to be the one to find out. :D
 
bcwang said:
I think they did test SG. They did one layer of AIO and then one layer of SG and that was their klasse panel.



SG was not in the tests.



For those who want to know the results, you can always go to gurureports.org and order yourself a copy. Its certainly worth the $$ IMO. But I'm biased....:D
 
bretfraz said:
SG was not in the tests.
I'm pretty sure it was... (opens copy of waxtest) "Initial notes: We applied one coat of each product." :nixweiss



About testing Megs #20, I think if I recall right from an old thread, Steve said it was a wierd case of "Me?? I thought you bought it!" :p
 
4DSC said:
I'm pretty sure it was... (opens copy of waxtest) "Initial notes: We applied one coat of each product." :nixweiss



About testing Megs #20, I think if I recall right from an old thread, Steve said it was a wierd case of "Me?? I thought you bought it!" :p



Good eye. I stand corrected. :doh But they didn't test them separately, only together.



All I looked at are the pictures, anyway. I don't understand none of that fancy college-boy writin' and stuff.
 
I'm getting really tired of having to continually explain the report to folks, especially when they may or may not have even read it...but, here it goes:



1) "The product rankings" - I HATE that particular chart!!!! I begged the publisher to not post such a thing, because I knew it would be misinterpretted, and boy, was I right.



Example: I got a genuinely ANGRY phone call from someone who said that "you are a bunch of idiots and I want my money back! How can you rate Mothers Cleaner Wax higher than their California Gold product?!"



I calmly explained to the gentleman that there was less than 0.01 points difference between the two products, and that a simple shift from a + to a neutral on a single grade could have swayed the results in either direction.



He said, "Oh, I didn't look at the actual numbers! How about that? Well, I guess I'll keep using my Calfiornia Gold, then. Thanks!"



THE CHART IS NOTHING MORE THAN A LIST OF ALL OF THE PRODUCTS TESTED AND THEIR "FINAL" GRADES. THERE'S MUCH MORE INFO IN THE DETAILS OF EACH PRODUCT - DO NOT RELY ON THE CHART FOR YOUR ONE-STOP INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Again, I begged the publisher to remove the chart, but since he footed the $150k for printing/production, he has final say in what happens.





2) Grades were weighted as follows:



Overall Performance: 40% (averaged from 80 individual grades over 8 weeks)

Durability: 30%

Ease of Use: 20% (10% for app, 10% for removal)

Availability: 10%



When you see each product's grades, you'll notice there are 5 total grades - let's look at one, for example...



Armor All Protective Barrier Car Wax (paste): Final Grade: B- 2.73



Durability = C+ (30% of the grade)

Performance = C+ (40% of the grade)

Ease of Use = A- (20% of the grade)

Availability = A (10%) of the grade)



Summary: 70% of the grade = C+, 30% of the grade = a strong A-. Add all of them, average them any you wind up with 2.73 and a B-



This does not mean that it's a "better" product than a product like Souveran. Souveran kicked AA's *** in performance.



Again, the "chart" burns me, and I have to explain this constantly, b/c people don't want to read the "how's" the "why's" and the "what's" of the report. They want to be like Bret and look at the pictures, then write or call me to tell me what idiot's me and my staff are.





3) DO NOT LET THE REPORT DETERMINE WHAT PRODUCTS YOU USE!!!



I've said this a thousand times - literally! The report is a subjective/objective guide to product performance in nearly identical situations. It should serve as a relative comparison, with the caveat that if you're happy with your current product(s), keep using them.



In every test, one product comes in first place, and another comes in last place. That's the nature of a test! Think about Car&Driver, and when they test a Ferrari, a Porsche, a Viper and an AMG Mercedes. All of them are fantastic cars in their own right, but one hast to come in 4th, one in 3rd, one in 2nd and one in 1st.



Unlike Car&Driver, we didn't have millions of dollars in ad revenue "helping" our decisions - we used the best testing methods available to us, and left it at that.







4) The Products and the Audience were not designed with Autopian's in mind!



We had to leave out several products due to space constraints, and we had to take a serious look at who would actually be interested in the report.



In reality, Autopia is a very small website - when we published the report, Autopia had about 3,000 members, of which about 5 actually bought reports from us. Had we written/designed the test with Autopia in mind, we'd have bored and/or scared away the rest of the world!



We're all considered "nuts" here by outsiders - think about all of the comments that you get from your neighbors, etc. about how "obsessed" we are with car care. How many people of the general public would want to read a 54 page report that was Autopian in nature? :D



I love getting calls from people who say something like, "I really appreciate the report and the info in it - some of it was above my head, but I understood most of it, and I learned about microfiber towels, and tricks for removing defects! Thanks!"



Realize, that of the 8,500 - 9,000 reports we've sold, less than 100 of them have been sold to "pro" detailers and/or Autopian's. 99.9% of the reports are sold to average Joe's and people who are enthusiast detailers. That was our audience.



Finally, as I mentioned earlier, we had space constraints to deal with, so a few products didn't make the cut. Products like S100, Platinum, etc. missed the boat because they were similar (if not identical) to other products in performance.



I hate to brag, but I have nearly 1,000 e-mails from people regarding P21S wax and how they had never heard of it before our report came out...I wonder, how many of you heard about it through our report? :D



Ok, enough ranting....sorry for the sermon. ;)



BTW, Lemon Pledge finished dead last.
 
I'm ever thankful to your report for leading me to P21S/S100. I probably would have stuck with Souveran or Paste Glaz if I hadn't seen the report. The lower price sealed the deal.
 
I just got my report today. I looked at the Armor All Diamiond Hard Shine/Protective barrier picture. I have that wax. That was my first can of wax! I wasn't really hammered by it, a nice decent wax. Easy on, fairly easy off, decent shine. Nothing amazing. This was before Meguiar's #7/#26/Blitz though...Used the wax once in the morning then found Autopia......I haven't seen it lately.
 
geekysteve said:
I'm getting really tired of having to continually explain the report to folks, especially when they may or may not have even read it...but, here it goes:



Steve, I'm guessing you've got a few more times to go. No, maybe, another hundred...No, another thousand..........



Originally posted by geekysteve

3) DO NOT LET THE REPORT DETERMINE WHAT PRODUCTS YOU USE!!!



I've said this a thousand times - literally! ... It should serve as a relative comparison, with the caveat that if you're happy with your current product(s), keep using them.



In every test, one product comes in first place, and another in last place. That's the nature of a test!



... - we used the best testing methods available to us, and left it at that.



:up :up



Well said and good advice.
 
I just ordered a copy. I really appreciate geekysteve being so forthcoming and I hope that guru reports hasn't lost too many sales from all that's been posted here.



I'm pretty sure I already know what will be in the report that will be most useful, but I'm buying it anyway. It's kind of like when I pay for National Public Radio even though I've already 'used' their product.



This is not meant to be combative, but if you're on the fence, it's only $10 and buying this one helps the chances of an update.
 
Geez, y'know, I'm just a noob, but I think I got a handle on one thing, and it has to do with the matching of product and application.



I did two cars this weekend, a Miata and a Trailblazer.



The Miata: Red. All curves. Sporty. Deep carnuba wax for amplification of the curviness and sexiness. Souveran.



The Trailblazer: Pewter metalflake. All angles. Brawny and utilitarian. Polymer for reflectivity and accentuation of the surface and angular look of the Trailblazer. NuFinish. (It was what I had, and anyway I like it.)



There's a huge world of products with different personalities and appearances, just lke there is a huge world of cars with different personalities and appearances. I say, match 'em up!



BTW, aren't Hyundais looking pretty damn nice these days? Whoever is designing those cars deserves an award. Great shapes. I'm not trying to drift the thread, but make a point that there is beauty at every price point. Yeah, Porsches are way nicer than Hyundais, but the Hyundai shines up pretty nicely, too. Those cars just scream for carnuba over sealant!



And finally, isn't it as much the process as it is the product? Doesn't a skilled detailer produce a better shine with Zymol Cleaner Wax than an indifferent mope does with Pinnacle Souveran? If that weren't true, then where would we get our feeling of accomplishment from; not shopping for products, that's for sure. We get it from the skillful application of those products. The more we learn, the more of an edge we look for through selection of products, which, I think, takes us back to my original point; different products work better for different shapes and surfaces! And that's the artistic and personal part of the whole experience that ties right to Steve's statement: if you are happy with a product, continue using it. After all, each one of us has found what we consider to be the right products for our own application.



It is a search for Truth that drives this urge to list and categorize and rank things; but here, as in many things, truth is not an absolute but is subjective to the individual's perceptions and desires. Rather, consider it a search for Beauty. And then, there become many paths to the Truth; for in fact,



"'Beauty is truth, truth beauty-- that is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'"





Mosca
 
Ah, you got it exactly right, Mosca. (Another Autopian poet; Accumulator, you got a peer. :) ) I never heard it said better.

P.S. Check out Jngr's quote in my sig line.
 
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