Newbie to forum couple of questions

R

reggie11

New member
I just recently discovered this website and I have found it extremely useful. I have done a little searching and found out the basics and have a few questions in regards to the steps and the order they go in. I think they go in the below order.



1. Wash and Dry

2. Claying

3. Polish

4. fix scratches with touch up paint ( not sure if this should be earlier or not)

5. Wax



Please let me know if the order is incorrect. I also noticed that most of the people on this forum don't recommend waxing and polishing by hand...it there a reason for this other then the time. I am worried that if I use a buffer I may make a lot of swirl marks.



I had also planned on posting some pics to ask how to go about fixing some scratches and marks but I will have to wait until I get 10 posts. I appreciate the help and look forward to detailing my car.
 
reggie11 said:
I am worried that if I use a buffer I may make a lot of swirl marks.
Click to expand...



you have that backwards

polishing by machine is the only way to remove swirl marks



waxing is a personal preferance

I like to wax by hand







1. Wash and Dry

2. Claying

3. fix scratches with touch up paint

4. Polish

5. Wax
 
Yup also want to let the touch up paint dry/cure for a while before you polish -- Or it will just come right off.



As for by hand or not -- Only your polishes, and some glazes are futile if tried to be done by hand.



You see, the polishes are worked into the paint, and broken down. They physically abrade the paint (remove a micro layer) -- actual paint correction. To do this, the polish has to be worked VERY fast, and intensely. The human hand/arm just can't do this. It takes a machine going thousands of RPMS to achieve the result you are after.



If you polished by hand as fast as you could,.. and could somehow keep up your fastest speed for as long as you wanted -- It would take you 60 hours to do what you could do in 3 with a Machine,.. and quite frankly it isn't possible to do by hand with any amount of hours what a machine can do. To my knowledge.



Minor imperfections can be taken out by hand, but anything above very minor things need a more serious approach.



Waxing, is just preference. I like to wax by hand and machine. Waxing by machine is ALOT faster on application -- but sometimes it will use more of your wax than you intended.



All a machine is doing is applying it faster, and in even layers (wax) -- This can be done very easily by hand. It is just application when it comes to wax, no 'polishing' or buffing to be done. So the machine, is as you say, just a convenient way to apply wax.



By hand really isn't that much slower to me.
 
Yup also want to let the touch up paint dry/cure for a while before you polish -- Or it will just come right off.



As for by hand or not -- Only your polishes, and some glazes are futile if tried to be done by hand.



You see, the polishes are worked into the paint, and broken down. They physically abrade the paint (remove a micro layer) -- actual paint correction. To do this, the polish has to be worked VERY fast, and intensely. The human hand/arm just can't do this. It takes a machine going thousands of RPMS to achieve the result you are after.



If you polished by hand as fast as you could,.. and could somehow keep up your fastest speed for as long as you wanted -- It would take you 60 hours to do what you could do in 3 with a Machine,.. and quite frankly it isn't possible to do by hand with any amount of hours what a machine can do. To my knowledge.



Minor imperfections can be taken out by hand, but anything above very minor things need a more serious approach.



Waxing, is just preference. I like to wax by hand and machine. Waxing by machine is ALOT faster on application -- but sometimes it will use more of your wax than you intended.



All a machine is doing is applying it faster, and in even layers (wax) -- This can be done very easily by hand. It is just application when it comes to wax, no 'polishing' or buffing to be done. So the machine, is as you say, just a convenient way to apply wax.



By hand really isn't that much slower to me.
 
I appreciate the help.



In regards to waxing by hand. Does this cause more swirls then waxing by a machine or is it a matter of doing it correctly? I was wondering what actually causes swirl marks and spider webbing?



Do you have a recommendation on what the best way to apply the touch up paint?
 
Waxing shouldn't cause swirls regardless of whether you do it by hand or by machine unless you get debris under the applicator pad.



Swirl marks are primarily caused by washing the car. The better techniques and products you use for washing, the less swirl marks you'll induce.
 
I take my car through an auto car wash every so often. They use really soft cloth to wash them. I am assuming no one on this forum recommends an automatic car wash...
 
was wondering what actually causes swirl marks and spider webbing?
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Most of the time your wash/dry method is what causes swirl marks. Some of the more experienced pros here can go into greater detail, but I would recommend this for your wash/dry:



-Wash in the shade if possible

-2 Buckets, 1 rinse/1 with your car wash shampoo of choice

-Use a sheepskin wash mitt

-Wash from the top down, one panel at a time, don't apply too much pressure

-use only back and forth motions, no circles(this will make scratches more visible)

-remove the spray nozzle from the hose if you use one, then sheet the water off with a steady stream of water. This will take 80% of the water off and make it easier to dry.

-dry with waffle weave microfiber towels, don't use too much pressure
 
I've never used one, so i cant say whether you should use one or not.



I am pretty much a n00b at this stuff too. I can tell you that changing my wash/dry routine has helped out a lot with swirls on my car. I never thought that i was the one putting them there.
 
reggie11- Welcome to Autopia!



reggie11 said:
I take my car through an auto car wash every so often. They use really soft cloth to wash them. I am assuming no one on this forum recommends an automatic car wash...
Click to expand...



Heh heh, that's an understatement ;) No way you can do that without getting the paint marred up, you can bet your life on that ;)



You might want to look at my thread "Accumulator's Non-marring Wash Technique" in the Hall of Fame Forum to see how some of us go about washing. Washing a vehicle without marring the paint is very, very difficult.

Do you have a recommendation on what the best way to apply the touch up paint?
Click to expand...



There's a fairly recent thread that was started by Cytomax where we discussed this in some detail, well worth searching for IMO. There are others too...this can get a little involved so I can't retype it all here/now.



Does anyone recommend using a california waterblade?
Click to expand...



The problem with those is that sometime a speck of abrasive dirt will get between the blade and the paint and you'll get a nasty scratch. Sooner or later it *will* happen, no matter how careful you are.



I was wondering what actually causes swirl marks and spider webbing?
Click to expand...



Abrasive [stuff] getting pressed against the paint and then moved under pressure. As noted, this almost always happens during the wash/dry and is almost always caused by the dirt on the car (assuming the wash/dry/etc. media is soft enough that *it* won't mar...search on "CD-test" to see how to make sure such things are safe to use).



"Buffer swirls" are caused by rotary polishers (often when they're used incorrectly) and aren't a concern when you use *other* types of polishers. These safer ones are what most people should start with; machines like the Porter Cable, Ultmate Detailing Machine, Flex, and the Cyclo. All of these are safe and effective, even for beginners.



If you want to work by hand, IMO the only viable option is the 1Z line of polishes. Sources: Welcome to Exceldetail.com! or Aloha & Welcome to Our Oasis for All Your Auto Detailing, Auto Detailing Supplies, Auto Detailing Equipment, Auto Detailing Products, & Auto Detailing Accessories for all your Automobile Detailing
 
reggie11 said:
Do you guys recommend applying a sealant during the detailing process? If so would I apply it after the waxing?
Click to expand...





If you're gonna use both a wax and a sealant the sealant goes on first (sealants won't bond to wax). But I strongly encourage you to not worry about that stuff for now. Keep it simple and just use a good durable wax such as Collinite. Sealants only look good on perfectly prepped/maintained paint anyhow. (It's not like I'm anti-sealant; I use them on two of our vehicles...two vehicles that basically stay *perfect* for years on end, which is a tough row to hoe ;) )
 
Yup also want to let the touch up paint dry/cure for a while before you polish -- Or it will just come right off.



As for by hand or not -- Only your polishes, and some glazes are futile if tried to be done by hand.



You see, the polishes are worked into the paint, and broken down. They physically abrade the paint (remove a micro layer) -- actual paint correction. To do this, the polish has to be worked VERY fast, and intensely. The human hand/arm just can't do this. It takes a machine going thousands of RPMS to achieve the result you are after.



If you polished by hand as fast as you could,.. and could somehow keep up your fastest speed for as long as you wanted -- It would take you 60 hours to do what you could do in 3 with a Machine,.. and quite frankly it isn't possible to do by hand with any amount of hours what a machine can do. To my knowledge.



Minor imperfections can be taken out by hand, but anything above very minor things need a more serious approach.



Waxing, is just preference. I like to wax by hand and machine. Waxing by machine is ALOT faster on application -- but sometimes it will use more of your wax than you intended.



All a machine is doing is applying it faster, and in even layers (wax) -- This can be done very easily by hand. It is just application when it comes to wax, no 'polishing' or buffing to be done. So the machine, is as you say, just a convenient way to apply wax.



By hand really isn't that much slower to me.
 
Accumulator said:
If you're gonna use both a wax and a sealant the sealant goes on first (sealants won't bond to wax). But I strongly encourage you to not worry about that stuff for now. Keep it simple and just use a good durable wax such as Collinite. Sealants only look good on perfectly prepped/maintained paint anyhow. (It's not like I'm anti-sealant; I use them on two of our vehicles...two vehicles that basically stay *perfect* for years on end, which is a tough row to hoe ;) )
Click to expand...





I appreciate the advice. I saw the Ultima Paint Guard Plus and it looked like it might work really well so I figured I would ask. I will just keep with the claying, polishing, and waxing to start out with. I am just use to washing and waxing so this will be a first for me.
 
reggie11 said:
... I will just keep with the claying, polishing, and waxing to start out with. I am just use to washing and waxing so this will be a first for me.
Click to expand...





It's easy to get overly involved in this stuff, especially if you send enough time here at Autopia ;)



Keeping things simple and getting a handle on the basics will go a long, long way towards getting your vehicle(s) better than they've ever been.
 
Accumulator said:
It's easy to get overly involved in this stuff, especially if you send enough time here at Autopia ;)



Keeping things simple and getting a handle on the basics will go a long, long way towards getting your vehicle(s) better than they've ever been.
Click to expand...



i couldnt agree with you more. the more time i spend on this site the more i want to get outside and start working on my car!!! im waiting for the weather to get a little bit warmer here in michigan before i go at my first detail job of the year.



and im a lot like the guy who started this thread. all i have really done is wash then wax my car. this spring detail i have planned will be my first time using a clay bar and a polish on the paint before i wax it.
 
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