Newbie dilemma: Build around my Klasse? Or something else entirely?

S

SwedishRider

New member
:help:

I have racked my brain on how to get started with detailing the exterior of my vehicles, and so have researched multiple options fairly extensively here and elsewhere on the Web. To be honest... I'm lost and hoping for some solid advice from your knowledge and experiences.

First, a little background... my vehicles are both daily drivers (Ford Ranger and Dodge Caliber, both 2007). I have owned the vehicles since new and have cared for them well. They're getting a bit older now, but are in excellent mechanical and physical shape, especially given that I live in New England. My detailing care has been decent through the years, as years ago I researched how to keep a car's finish in great shape (at that time), and discovered Klasse AIO and Klasse SG, settling on them as my go-to products. I have applied them by hand using microfiber applicators, and have used only high-quality towels, car wash, mitts, etc. which working on each vehicle's finish. I have clay barred both vehicles a few times over their time with me as well.

I'd like to take the next step and upgrade to a machine polisher... and that's where the overwhelming info and choices make this a difficult, confusing choice...

As far as vehicle washing is concerned, I now use the two-bucket method with grit guards, a Meguiar's microfiber wash mitt, typically Meguiar's Gold class wash, and microfiber drying towels. I think my wash and dry method seems pretty solid, especially considering these vehicles are year-round daily drivers.

I then sometimes use Meguiar's Smooth Surface Clay kit, and I'm thinking of trying Griot's Garage clay for my next round of claying. I've watched a few videos on proper technique, and again, I think my clay bar method is effective and safe given my research.

Now... here's where I don't know where to go..

I currently have quite a bit of KAIO and KSG in 1000mL containers that I've been using for hand applications for years. If I were to build my system around the Klasse Twins, what pads on what polishers would work best with the KAIO (I've read the KSG should never applied by hand even if you have a machine). My research has yielded two DA machines as the top contenders:

Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital (25' cord) ($155)
Meguiar's MT300 ($220)

I have never used a polisher, and have no idea if I'd like the PC-style of the GG6, or the rotary-style of the MT300. But either way I choose, I'd need to find a backing plate and pad for whichever polisher I picked that would work well with the KAIO. For heavier correction work, I'm leaning toward Meguiar's Ultimate Compound to be used before the KAIO. But again... with what pad?

And so that raises another possibility... should I abandon Klasse, and go for either the GG6 or the MT300 and then use their systems as full systems? Meguiar's has a full line of "Ultimate" products that work as a unit. Would they give the same durability against New England winters as the Klasse? Or would the Griot's system be better than both the Meguiar's and the Klasse twins? And around and around I go on this one.... :blink:

A few other thoughts... The price spread between the MT300 and GG6 is small enough that I would pay the premium for the MT300 if it would be the better option for my situation. I might even go for a GG6 and a GG3, which would be about $45 more than the MT300 (not counting backing plates, pads, etc). But that's about it... I would not go higher $ than that and enter Flex or BOSS territory. This is for my daily driver cars, not an exotic or for a business.

And as far as pads and backing plates... I'm very confused as to what is best. I can't find a solid review of pads used for KAIO. I looked into the hex logic pads from CG, Meguiar's foam pads, and the GG pads (and others)... and I have no idea which is best for Klasse (if any).

Sorry for the long-winded post, but I can't find any criteria on how to proceed, and so I'm hoping for some solid advice from the wisdom of the forum. Should I try to build a system around the Klasse products I own? If so, what machine and which brand/size backing plates and pads for it would work best? Or should I buy the GG6 and use the Griot's system? Or the MT300 and the Meguiar's system? Or maybe something else entirely? I have no idea where to start or how to decide... :dunno:

Any ideas? Thanks for any help and advice in advance! :thanks
 
This is the webpage that I have used for Klasse guidance. It mentions the PC7424XP, which is a good machine no doubt. But I would have to think for a few dollars more, the GG6 would be the way to go over the PC7424XP.

Anyway, here is the link to the page: Klasse Car Wax Guide
 
I have both the gg6" and 3" da's and like them. the lifetime warranty can't be beat and griots garage stands behind them 100 %. the 3" da is a bit under powered, but works well for those tight areas. the 6" is probably the most powerful da in it's class. if you put a 5" backing plate on it, it will work even better. griot's pads are good, but lake country pads have a greater variety of pads available. I use both and like the flat pads better.
I hear klasse products are good, but I wouldn't lock yourself into one product line. check out the online reviews of others since there are so many really good products out there.
some products really do perform better than others, are easier to use, etc. remember to have fun !
 
The first step is determining if you really need to polish at all. No need if the paint is in good shape. I can't help you with the machine decision...I have the PC7424 and have used it with great success. I most often use the orange (more dense) pad for compound and polish.
I never moved to a rotary because I've been able to do all I wanted/needed with the PC DA polisher. Besides, back in the day there were all these warnings about rotaries and burning paint - not as much an issue these days with rotaries with better (slower) speed control.

Btw, you only mentioned getting/using Meg's compound. First, the general rule is always go less aggressive first, then more aggressive as/if necessary. And if you're gonna use compound, you almost always follow up with finer polish. Meg's compound just might be somewhat of an exception as I've used it a couple of times and it's not as aggressive as some other compounds - matter of fact, I feel that it acts a bit more like a polish than a compound.

I've used KAIO and KSG in the past, but I'm not a huge fan. It seems to me you need too many layers of KSG to get the desired results - that's a lot of hand rubbing. And it seems you also may be thinking of using a machine to apply KAIO/KSG - I think by hand is the better approach, especially if you'll apply multiple layers of KSG.

For me, I'm in a Duragloss sealant phase 601/105 & 601/111, that I top with DG Aquawax spray after washes. When fall rolls around, After a good wash, clay and pre-cleaner, I'll do a double coat of 601/111 and perhaps top with Collinite 476s for winter.
 
swedishrider- This is a complicated subject...I'll try to keep it simple without leaving anything critical out.

Griot's clay has always been OK IME but I *hate* using their SpeedShine for lube (don't hate it period, it's an OK "waxy" QD ). I use the *VERY* gentle Sonus SFX clay the most (and I *LOVE* their Glyde lube!) but the short answer for clay continues to be ClayMagic Blue.

Polishers- The short answer is to just get the Griot's (love mine). I can't imagine you ever doing enough work with a rotary to become truly proficient with it (I have rotaries, and a lot of experience with them, yet I *never* touch either of mine any more). Two challenges with a rotary- 1) it's much easier to have a serious "oops!" and 2) finishing out 100% hologram-free can be *incredibly* challenging and since you'll probably never attain that level of expertise (I haven't and won't) you'd need the Griot's for that part of the job anyhow.

Skip their 3" (their *pneumatic* 3" is OK though).

The PCEX has a hollow shaft for the part where the pad mounts. People here have had that fracture, leaving a jagged piece of metal spinning there right next to the paint (and while bearing down on the machine). No it doesn't happen often but I won't take the chance. Plus, my PCs have required rebuilding (think cost) while the GG just has a warranty for stuff like that.

No polisher will make the KAIO more than what it is, namely a very good, but functionally nonabrasive (for practical purposes), Paint Cleaner. For that you'll need abrasive polish(es).

If you use the Meguiar's Ultimate Compound I'd absolutely follow up with something milder and my hands-down choice would be HD Polish. Eh, I'd just get that to start with and see how it goes; you can always get more aggressive later.

KSG works fine by hand or machine, I find I can get the ultra-thin application easier by hand.
 
I think you should go for the GG6 over the MT300 mostly because of the warranty, price, and positive feedback (the difference in performance will be negligible IMHO). With that said I think Klasse AIO is worth applying via a DA but definitely not the Klasse Sealant Glaze (needs to go on very thin and when you layer you don't want the DA affecting previous layers).

I would get a 5inch backing plate and a 3.5inch backing plate (for use with 5.5inch and 4inch pads respectively) with either DA (GG6 or MT300). Typically most people invest in a DA polisher to polish the paint and not apply LSP (Sealants/Waxes), if your not looking to polish/compound it may not be worth the whole investment just to apply Klasse AIO by DA.

If Klasse works I wouldn't switch, I loved the stuff and used it for over a year before trying other products but if you really want to try another LSP I'd recommend what was recommended to me by another forum member (Accumulator) when I decided to make the switch from Klasse, FK1000P Hi-Temp Paste Wax (actually a sealant or hybrid wax... I think).

As for pads they are color coded (per manufacturer / pad line) I personally really like the Hydro-Tech pads:

  • Blue/cyan is for heavy correction (compounding)
  • Orange/tangerine is for typically correction (compounding/polish/AIO)
  • Red/crimson is for minimal correction (light polish/AIO/LSP)
*Note: to do a whole car or multiple cars you will need 3-6 of each pad type (depending on what you plan to do).

I forgot to mention pad cleaners, you'll need to find some way to clean the pads once you've used them. I personally soak them overnight and wash by hand using a microfiber specific detergent that works very well but takes a lot of time. There are also pad cleaner detergents, brushes and pad cleaning devices (bucket looking thing).

Most clays are the same and I've noticed little difference between different brands of the same grade of clay (fine/medium). The biggest game changer is the clay alternative and I use them 90% of the time I want to clay -> The Autoscrub Fine or Medium Wash Mitt is great!

About DA's: I find a lot of the time it's trial and error for pad and product combination to get the desired correction. Nothing is really set in stone because technique, product, environmentals, and tools all play a dynamic role in paint correction. With that said I found Meguiar's M101 to be a very user-friendly compound that has great cutting ability and finishes like a medium cut polish. I didn't really like M205 polish nearly as much as the M101 and the consistency is totally different so it was a learning curve. I ended up buying Car Pro Reflect finishing polish/jewelling polish and I really loved working with it.

The only way to know for sure what will be best, unfortunately, is trial and error, but I think a good starting point is a GG6 (with 3.5 and 5 inch backing plates), 2 of each 5.5inch Hydro-tech pad, 1 of each 4inch Hydro-tech pad, Meguiar's M101 compound (or Meguiar's Ultimate Compound), Car Pro Reflect Polish (or Menzerna SF4000) for your paint correction needs.

The deciding factors should be:
  • Goal's (correct paint, mantain paint, remove ornage peel, etc.)
  • Budget (how much you have to spend really dictates what you can purchase)
  • Time (do you really have time to learn to correct paint and then follow through with regular spot corrections)
  • Skill (are you confident with your ability to learn paint correction or do you expect the tool to do all the work without any learning curve)
 
Thank you all for your feedback and suggestions! It's a lot of food for thought. 4u2nvinmtl in particular put some things into perspective with the list of deciding factors (but you all have made great points). Thinking back to my original research some 8 years ago, I picked KAIO and KSG because it was high quality, and I would have to do it a minimal number of times yearly in order to keep my finish looking good. Things have only gotten more crazy since then. Being realistic and practical, I honestly don't have time to invest (at least right now) to learn how to properly correct paint with a DA, and even if I did, I wouldn't have the time to be out there very often to do it. If I can get my cars coated with Klasse a couple of times a year... it's been a good year. :wacko:

The Meguiar's MT300 seemed appealing largely because it's a complete system (if I chose to abandon Klasse), with materials local to me- both Meguiar's pads and polishes are on the shelf at the local auto parts stores. Plus, the MT300 has gotten great reviews on many forums. But you all are correct, for what I would do with it, the Griot's 6" DA would really be just fine... and much less expensive with a better warranty.

My current method is 2-bucket wash & microfiber towel dry, then clay bar with lube, then a quick wash & dry again, then KAIO followed by KSG (both with microfiber applicators).

I've read in a few places that if I use a quality clay lube that doubles as a quick detailer, I could skip a dry and second wash, and go straight to the clay barring, and then straight to Klasse. So that would be 2-bucket wash, clay bar with lube (microfiber towel drying each panel as I complete each panel), then KAIO followed by KSG. Does that sound like it would work?

I guess the only thing left to consider now is if a Griot's 6" DA is worth the investment to apply the KAIO and occasionally correct defects with Meguiar's Ultimate Compound before the KAIO. These are daily drivers that realistically won't see a lot of routine detailing. Would a DA polisher apply Klasse AIO with better results or more quickly vs my current hand method? Would it make my detailing strategy better or more efficient?
 
SwedishRider said:
I've read in a few places that if I use a quality clay lube that doubles as a quick detailer, I could skip a dry and second wash, and go straight to the clay barring, and then straight to Klasse. So that would be 2-bucket wash, clay bar with lube (microfiber towel drying each panel as I complete each panel), then KAIO followed by KSG. Does that sound like it would work?
Click to expand...

Yes this is how I do it, but I use a quality waterless/rinseless wash to make my clay lube (ONR - Optimum No Rinse or UWWP - Ultima Waterless Wash Plus)

ONR - Optimum No Rinse Wash & Shine
UWWP - Ultima Waterless Wash Plus+ Concentrate

SwedishRider said:
I guess the only thing left to consider now is if a Griot's 6" DA is worth the investment to apply the KAIO and occasionally correct defects with Meguiar's Ultimate Compound before the KAIO. These are daily drivers that realistically won't see a lot of routine detailing. Would a DA polisher apply Klasse AIO with better results or more quickly vs my current hand method? Would it make my detailing strategy better or more efficient?
Click to expand...

I don't know your budget but even if you don't use it often (like once a year) it will be useful when you need it to correct scuffs, scratches, and swirls. If I were you, I'd pick one up and use the pads available locally (assuming they are enthusiast grade or better) as you don't plan to do it often it will be cheaper and more convenient.
 
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