NEWB: Zaino one panel at a time... (extending application over a period of days).
- Thread starter Bis
- Start date
Brad B
New member
SuperBee364 said:
I'll take a bit of this action.
Actually, I just didn't quite understand your statement. If something looks good a long, long time isn't that the goal? Not sure how it can do this and not provide protection? Would be interested in what you have found during testing that gave you that result.I am curious because I have Zaino on a couple of my daily drivers. I have been thrilled with the durability, shine, gloss, slickness and the fact that I can go between one and two years between any needed paint corrections underneath. To me that means pretty good protection. I give myself credit for good maintenance and washing technique to avoid paint damage in the first place, which helps the results for any wax/sealant. But that, in tandem with Zaino has really done well for me. As always, everyones results will vary.
I don't claim to be a Zaino Zealot. I never claim anything to be the best, or the worst. To do so is like saying Dark Chocolate is better than Milk Chocolate or Ferraris are better than Fords. But I do however, take stock in my test own results which pitted Zaino against a lot of other products. And my long term results on cars as well as painted test panels, have shown great results.
I'm not saying there aren't other products that do well, there are, and I have some of them, but your thoughts on Zaino are pretty extreme so I have to wonder what might have gone wrong.
SuperBee364
New member
Brad, I've written novels about Zaino before, and had this exact conversation more than a few times here in the pages of Autopia. Rather than rehash it again, here's an alternative idea...
Strip your hood clean of all LSP. Treat half of it to however many coats of Zaino you'd like, and the other half to two coats of 1000p. Take care of your car as you normally would. Pay close attention to: the ease of which contaminants are removed during the wash, how well any bird bombs are removed, ease of which rain water spots are removed, and how the products looks compare over time. Let this test go on about six months. Post up your results.
Strip your hood clean of all LSP. Treat half of it to however many coats of Zaino you'd like, and the other half to two coats of 1000p. Take care of your car as you normally would. Pay close attention to: the ease of which contaminants are removed during the wash, how well any bird bombs are removed, ease of which rain water spots are removed, and how the products looks compare over time. Let this test go on about six months. Post up your results.
Brad B
New member
Ok, so by protection from the environment you mean how easily debris is removed. Fair enough. Not sure the actual protection of the naked paint is any greater because of this, but I see now how you have deduced this.
Btw, my Carrera has FK 1000 on it since last fall and is doing well, it looks awesome, but I have never noticed the bird bombs, etc., wipe off noticibly easier. Guess I need to park my S4 and the Carrera under the tree and start making bird calls!
Btw, my Carrera has FK 1000 on it since last fall and is doing well, it looks awesome, but I have never noticed the bird bombs, etc., wipe off noticibly easier. Guess I need to park my S4 and the Carrera under the tree and start making bird calls!
SuperBee364
New member
Brad B. said:Ok, so by protection from the environment you mean how easily debris is removed. Fair enough. Not sure the actual protection of the naked paint is any greater because of this, but I see now how you have deduced this.
Btw, my Carrera has FK 1000 on it since last fall and is doing well, it looks awesome, but I have never noticed the bird bombs, etc., wipe off noticibly easier. Guess I need to park my S4 and the Carrera under the tree and start making bird calls!
That's a big part of it, sure.. how easily contaminants are released by an LSP plays a *huge* part in how much potential there is to induce marring during the washing process, but more importantly, it's how well the LSP protects the underlying clear coat from the contaminant. I've seen many examples of tar, bugs, bird poops, water spots going completely through Zaino and attaching itself directly to the clear coat. This doesn't happen nearly as often with the Collinintes, and darn near never with 1000p. Length of exposure time and heat plays a huge part as to how well an LSP can protect from a contaminant going through it and directly effecting the clear coat underneath, for sure. Unfortunately, with Zaino, you gotta be pretty darn fast.
This guy:
is potty trained. He poops when I tell him to. I'm seriously not pulling your leg on this. Greg Nichols will vouch for me, as he's witnessed the incredible on-demand pooping power of this bird on many occasions.
Zaino failed the bird poop test miserably. The collinites did well, and 1000p laughed at his feeble attempts to penetrate it's poop-proof protection. No clear coats were (permanently) harmed during testing.
Brad B
New member
A real poop machine! I love it!! The ultimate wax tester. You should rent him out!
For the past few these years I haven't experienced the problems you have. Hard water and berry bird bombs are pretty common problems in our area. Guess I'm lucky.(?) Still, as I mentioned I have test panels always out getting abused with all the standard contaminants. Right now there are 9 products and 2 controls so I will keep watchingand testing. But I wish I had an obedient bird. My dog, Sparky, is not so understanding!
I do agree that releasing a contaminant easily will help against marring, etc. This isn't a problem with those with advanced detailing techniques like you or me, but a novice would certainly benefit from it. I'll keep this in future tests. Just need a way to make it measurable. Thanks!
For the past few these years I haven't experienced the problems you have. Hard water and berry bird bombs are pretty common problems in our area. Guess I'm lucky.(?) Still, as I mentioned I have test panels always out getting abused with all the standard contaminants. Right now there are 9 products and 2 controls so I will keep watchingand testing. But I wish I had an obedient bird. My dog, Sparky, is not so understanding!
I do agree that releasing a contaminant easily will help against marring, etc. This isn't a problem with those with advanced detailing techniques like you or me, but a novice would certainly benefit from it. I'll keep this in future tests. Just need a way to make it measurable. Thanks!
Bill D
Hooked For Life
What an ingenious experiment with the trainer pooper !! :chuckle. :xyxthumbs
I think that's gotta be the ultimate experiment only a most extreme Autopian could conjure up!
I think that's gotta be the ultimate experiment only a most extreme Autopian could conjure up!
SuperBee364
New member
Brad B. said:
The ability to measure the results, in this case, was easy. Each bird bomb was first treated to fk425 as the first attempt to remove it. That's all 1000p took; one quick squirt and wipe and the bomb (and all traces) were removed. The collinites required a bit more kinetic coaxing with an MF, but still came clean. The Zaino left quite noticeable remnants on the clear coat that required a good claying to remove. All bombs were allowed to dry for 24 hours before removal was attempted.
SuperBee364
New member
Bill D said:What an ingenious experiment with the trainer pooper !! :chuckle. :xyxthumbs
I think that's gotta be the ultimate experiment only a most extreme Autopian could conjure up!
I'd offer to test any other LSP that fellow Autopians would like tested, but both of my vehicles are about to be opti-coated (my air brush should be here tomorrow). I'm planning on getting a few test panels painted black and clear coated for further testing, but that's gonna have to wait til next spring.
Dan
Well-known member
SuperBee, that bird has to be the most awesome automotive LSP testing accessory ever!
Along those lines, I actually find I get WORSE etching with Z2 than I do with bare paint. I'd love to see you compare bare paint to a few layers of Z2.
Along those lines, I actually find I get WORSE etching with Z2 than I do with bare paint. I'd love to see you compare bare paint to a few layers of Z2.
SuperBee364
New member
Dan said:
Thanks, Dan.
Getting water spot etching with Zaino was my first cue that something wasn't quite right in Z land, eventually leading to pretty extensive testing of the various Z's (and a big variety of other LSP's, sealants and waxes) environmental protection abilities. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case re: worse etching, but any further testing is gonna have to wait til spring as I won't be able to use the wife's SUV... It's getting Opti-coated along with my car.
Have ran 3x of z5pro and clear seal on my wifes 740 for 8 months in the past. Washed 2x a month and no z8 for the first 7 months. Never had any issues with water spots or anything bonding to the paint. At the time I would park the car at the airport for 1-2 weeks a month where I worked. When I clayed the car after 8 months, the only thing the clay bar picked up was road tar behind the wheels.
Dan
Well-known member
SuperBee364 said:
I thought I was getting hard water etching with Z2 but I tested it against NXT, KSG and 845, it was actually much better at resisting hard water etching with 845 being the worst. I've secured something that should act as a synthetic bird poo and plan on testing with that, I just need to get a few scrap panels.
gmblack3 said:
I think the CS might be the saving grace. I don't get etching if I keep up with the Z6, but bare Z2 is the pits for me.
SuperBee364
New member
Bis said:Pssshhhh. Anybody want to buy my Z-Triplets? They are almost full!
SuperBee364 said:
Bis, one of the fun things about this hobby is always getting a chance to try something new. Don't get rid of your Zaino, experiment with it! Try using it by itself, and seeing how well it does/doesn't protect. Then you can either come back and say "Supe, you're full of it" or maybe even "Yeah, I had similar results". Also give the Collinite or 1000p underneath it idea a go (honestly, I think that's a fantastic idea. I'm not usually a "topper", but I do love the *look* of Zaino. Putting some good protection down first sounds like a real winner). There are so many good, cheap lsp's out there, don't limit yourself to one. Grab a bunch, and have some fun. Eventually, you'll come to find yourself using one product more than the others. Chances are, that's the one you should stick with, regardless of whether it has a Z, a C, an M or whatever other letter might be on it. Who knows, you might come to find Z works just great for your particular application (but understanding it's potential limitations is important, too).
Autopia is packed with, um, let's call them "discussions" about users getting vastly different results from the exact same products. Yeah, these arguments are sometimes slanted by the occasional loud mouthed shill, but for the most part, it's all good fun. The exact same product can give a huge range of results, based on many factors: where you live, application technique, removal technique, the clear coat it's applied to, how the car is washed, and the position of the Sun and Venus in the 7th Moon. Where I'm located, Zaino is best reserved for garage queen show cars, but that *still is* an appropriate usage of it. A great detailer once said, "Find something you like, and use it often." Take into consideration the opinions of others, sure, but use what works best *for you* in *your* particular situation.
Dan
Well-known member
Yep, follow Superbee's advice. I ditched all my Zaino and ended up buying another supply of it. Lookswise, I haven't found anything that beats it, especially on lighter colored metallics. In fact I need to see how Z8 works on top of FK1000P.
umi000
New member
Dan said:
I'm so glad you posted this - with all the praise 845 gets on various detailing forums, I thought I was the only one having water spotting issues! It's the reason why I'm not using 845 right now - sure, it lasts a fair while, but when you're in the middle of the rainy season (which, in our tropical country, lasts over half the year), the water spotting just drives you insane. I've had spotting with KSG as well - of the products I've used, so far what I've found to resist spotting best (in my admittedly limited experience) has been Opti-Seal.
Dan
Well-known member
umi000 said:
Yeah, KSG was also pretty bad. I haven't had the same issues with rain water though, only our hard tap water which is around 200-250ppm.
umi000
New member
Dan said:
Heh, I'd love it if our rain was the same - I'm not surprised that our rain water is a fair bit worse than yours. The air quality in Manila is pretty poor, with a lot of industrial pollution from factories scattered haphazardly throughout the city (poor urban planning and insufficient emission controls and enforcement), car pollution from poorly maintained engines (surplus engines, cars, buses and trucks from Japan are pretty common here, as well as very old (20+ years) vehicles still in use by families who can't afford to buy new cars), and dust and dirt from the various construction projects ballooning around the city. Add to this the fact that, unless there's an actual tropical storm, the rain showers are, though frequent, usually brief, so that they drop the pollution from the air onto your car, but don't last long enough to wash them off the vehicle. You're then left with very dirty water that the tropical sun will gladly dry off your car for you, leaving you with baked-on spots that can be quite a pain to take off.