new to autopia and think I messed up already

W

wdawg

New member
hi everybody,



I'm new to autopia but I'm learning from everybodies threads. I'm so glad this forum exists. Anyway, I recently bought a 04 Mercedes c230 Krompressor sedan in Black... I've owned 3 black on black cars now and all of them had swirls but I'm trying my best to not re-create the swirls on my mercedes. I recently bought Z2, Z5, and Z7 and microfibre towels. The first time I washed my car I used Z7 and then I used Z2 to wax my car. I realized that I didn't like Z2 very much and so I Z7'd my car the next week and used Z5.. I actually like Z5 much better than Z2. What I didn't know was that Z5 and Z2 aren't waxes correct? They are paint sealants correct? Pinnacle Souveran is a wax? Well for the last month I've been using Z7 to wash and then Z5. Have I messed up? I haven't seen any swirls but I haven't looked in crazy angles. From last weekend I looked and I didn't find any swirls. I guess what my question is, should I wash my car in dawn to start over? Or should I just leave this alone and continue to add more layers of Z5? I believe Z5 has bonded to my car and sealed it since I've Z7 and Z5 it for a month now. The reason I ask about dawning it and starting over is because I'd like to use Pinnacle's souveran wax on top of zaino.. Maybe I'm being really paranoid but I'd rather be sure than sorry.. Please post any advice or recommendations as I'm still learning.. Thanks in advance...
 
You don't have to dawn wash your car.

Dawn wash won't do any to Zaino.



To remove Zaino you should use 50-50 alcohol water solution or polish the car. You don't want to remove Zaino to apply a wax. :nono



I was using Zaino in my car with several layers of Z5 and Z2 (maybe 7 to 10 layers) and top it with wax. When you want to add more zaino you have to remove the wax (dawn wash or use any other method to remove the wax and oils)



Having many layers of Zaino is not wrong. It will increase the shine and reflection. The was will give more deep and wet look.



When you put wax on top of Z you are creating a sacrificable layer. Z will protect the car plus the wax.



You are doing right :xyxthumbs
 
Hold the phone, before you do anything, get in touch with Deanski here at Autopia. He is a Zaino nut and is well informed when it comes to its use and has diarrhea of the mouth when it comes to it! (Don't worry Deano, we still love you! ;) )



His car looks SWEET with Zaino
 
right on!... I thought I was f****** up. So if I wanted to go with a totally new product line I would have to mix 50/50 alcohol and water? I'm assuming that rubbing alcohol would be good enough? It's funny cause I've been reading all these threads and I wish I would've read them sooner. I wish I would have went with Klasse AIO and then Pinnacle's Souveran wax... Seems like Zaino products are such a pain in the butt.. So where was I, O what type of alcohol? rubbing alcohol?



Thanks in advance and sorry for the dumb questions.
 
This may seem obvious but, are you using Z1 or ZFX? Your posts make no mention of it. The INITIAL layer of Z2 or Z5 to touch your paint has to contain ZFX or be preceeded by Z1 in order for Zaino to bond.
 
no I never used nor purchased ZFX or Z1..



first time I washed my car I used Z7 to wash, then Z2..



I didn't like Z2 at all.. (still sitting in my garage barely used)



so the following weekend I used Z7 to wash and then Z5.

I liked it much better than Z2 so, I've been using Z7 to wash and then using Z5 every Saturday for a month now...



I was going to purchase Z6 but I figure I would post first and see if there was anything else I should buy. When I emailed Sal he mentioned nothing about having to purchase ZFX. He merely said that most people like Z5 compared to Z2 for darker color cars, and that I can apply as many coats of each as they are compatible with each other.



Now I'm beginning to worry again.. Did I mess up?
 
I really don't see any need to remove Zaino at all.. I'd just go ahead and top with souveran. Personally I'm a bit scared of using alcohol. I'd guess that the alcohol would dry out the clearcoat as well, similar to the way your hands dry out and start cracking if you clean your hands with it too much.



If you must insist on using it, isopropanol / isopropyl alcohol is what you'd use. the cheaper one to get is 70%; dilute it down a bit if you wish.



were you planning on using a polish, like gepc/sepc, aio, vanilla moose, or pinnacle PCL prior to souveran? If so, using these would remove zaino, without the need for alcohol.



EDIT: actually I just saw that you wanted to use klasse aio.. AIO will remove zaino. you can top this with souveran.



-Raymond
 
you would have wanted to use either z1 or zfx, as they are supposedly essential to having layers of z5/z2 bond properly. If you don't mind the wait in drying time, just get the z1.. Otherwise get zfx, which, in addition to 20 minute drying times, it also gives you the ability to do multiple layers one after another.



You can get these products to use and continue zainoing like normal.. Or if you're paranoid about something just dawn wash and start over with z1 or zfx/z5.



...But I thought you were going to switch to souveran instead?
 
oh and by the way.. having used both zaino and klasse, i'd say zaino is much easier and more forgiving on black than klasse. I've a world of complaints about klasse on black, none of which i've experienced with zaino. After having finally learned to use it properly, I use klasse now, because I like the way it looks the best of all the things i've tried. :)



What is even easier than both zaino and klasse would be a paint polish + carnauba combo. The the polish/carnauba would require more frequent reapplications, as they are not as durable as zaino or klasse.
 
wdawg said:
no I never used nor purchased ZFX or Z1..



first time I washed my car I used Z7 to wash, then Z2..



I didn't like Z2 at all.. (still sitting in my garage barely used)



so the following weekend I used Z7 to wash and then Z5.

I liked it much better than Z2 so, I've been using Z7 to wash and then using Z5 every Saturday for a month now...



I was going to purchase Z6 but I figure I would post first and see if there was anything else I should buy. When I emailed Sal he mentioned nothing about having to purchase ZFX. He merely said that most people like Z5 compared to Z2 for darker color cars, and that I can apply as many coats of each as they are compatible with each other.



Now I'm beginning to worry again.. Did I mess up?
Click to expand...



Without Z1 or ZFX it is likely that neither Z2 or Z5 ever bonded to your paint. You might want to take a look at the following thread for more info on Zaino.



Nick’s unsolicited Zaino tips and tricks
 
rjstaaf said:
Without Z1 or ZFX it is likely that neither Z2 or Z5 ever bonded to your paint. You might want to take a look at the following thread for more info on Zaino.



Nick’s unsolicited Zaino tips and tricks
Click to expand...



No that is not true.



I took this from Zaino web site

"ZFXâ„¢ is a Zaino Show Car Polish acceleration and appearance additive. It offers near-instant cure time, reduced surface distortion, enhanced polish flexibility, and improved bonding to both paint and additional layers of Show Car Polish. In simple terms, ZFXâ„¢ vastly improves paint surface appearance and increases polish durability. "



If you did not use it the cure time was longer but that does not mean did not bond.



Why didn't like Z2 in your black car? I have some problems with Zaino over my red vette and I made a comprehensive research in the topic and I found out Zaino users with black cars prefer Z5 over Z2. This happend with my red vette too the plastic look.

Some people likes it and they say it is reflections, personallly I don't.

It is a matter of personal preference.



If you read what is in the Zaino web site you did not make a mistake. You did not use ZFX that is not a must. The web site recomends use it twice a year or something like that but this will increase the plastic look. Is up to you to decide if you like it.

I was using ZFX because I wanted to put several coats the same day.

There was a time ZFX did not existed and people were applying Zaino and waiting several hours to apply the next layer.
 
remember you can use Z5 and Z7 interchangeable.



From Zaino web site.



"You can switch to Z-2 as soon as you are happy with the way the paint finish looks. Example, no more swirls, scratches etc. It's up to you. Z-2 has higher optical properties than Z-5. You can go from Z-2 to Z-5 and then back to Z-2 as often as you want. Z-2 and Z-5 are 100% compatible and interchangeable. You should always end with Z-2 as the last coat because of its higher optics."
 
You are supposed to use either Z1 or ZFX initially with your first layer of Z2 or Z5 to get proper bonding to the paint. After the first layer, you may use Z2/Z5 by itself as it will bond to the previous Z2/Z5 layer and then use Z1 or ZFX again after every 10 layers or so or every 6 months.



With ZFX, you can get the added benefit of faster dry times and instant curing so you can layer 3 coats per day. Otherwise, you would have to wait 24 hours to cure before the next layer.



To get a more wet looking shiny appearance, you are supposed to use Z6 in between layers.



Why bother stripping off the Zaino? Just top it with your carnauba like Souveran. Then you get the protection from the Zaino and the appearance you want from Souveran. Want to add more layers of Zaino later...just Dawn wash to strip off the remaining wax topper but leave most of the underlying Zaino first. Otherwise, further Zaino layers would not bond to the wax topper.



Did you read the Zaino website before the purchase? It is all laid out there and should be a must read before using. Zaino is fairly straightforward to use once you sort out all the mumbo-jumbo BS that has been written about it being a PITA. I can understand how someone would be confused by all that is written but is pretty easy after reading it through a couple of times.
 
I read Nick's undisclosed zaino tricks but I haven't read the one about using zaino without ZFX. I also did read the instructions before purchasing Zaino products and even emailed Sal before purchasing. I got worried after reading all the posts here and I thought I messed up by not using ZFX. I also didn't realize that Zaino is just a polish and not a wax. I think I have a better understanding and I'm about to purchase some Pinnacle Souveran, I'm also going to leave Zaino on and dump the idea of Klasse.



I have to thank everybody that posted.. You guys are very helpful and I'm so glad I joined this forum. :bow

I'll also post some pics when I'm done with the souveran :D
 
Yeah, Zaino is a polymer sealant and not a real polish. Some people may even call it a "wax" as a generic term for something that is applied onto your car to beautify and protect.



The term "polish" really is misused a lot. To me and most Autopians, I believe, a polish in the purest sense refers to something to apply which contains an abrasive to remove swirl marks and defects in the clear coat/paint, etc. Some may extend this definition to include some Meguiar's products (#3, #7, #81, etc.) which aren't abrasive really but more of fillers and oils to fill in/hide the swirl marks. I would call these more a glaze than anything else though.
 
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