New SAE regulations

T

TRD-22

New member
Alright somebody correct me if I'm wrong;



For those who don't know, the Society of Automotive Engineering or SAE has presented a new set of stricter regulations for auto manufacturers regarding automotive horsepower and torque ratings. Auto manufacturers have to back up their claim of the amount of horsepower the engine makes rating wise.



Toyota has been one of the first manufacturers to follow the new SAE regulations and thus a decline in horsepower and torque on certain 2006 models has been noted. But in reality, no changes to the engine have been implemented and the same performance will result compared to the higher HP ratings before the new SAE regulations.



Ex. 2005 Camry SE V6- 3.3L DOCH V6- 225hp/240lb-ft

2006 Camry SE V6- 3.3L DOCH V6- 210hp/220lb-ft



Same performance of 0-60 in around 7 seconds.



So, looks like nearly every automobile as it enters the 2006MY will see a decrease in the performance numbers but real life performance will remain the same.



Bit confusing if you ask me...
 
Been caught in the 225HP Ford lie eh? I think this was an early 90's thing IIRC when Ford listed the HP rating on the 5.0 Mustang as being 225 when it was about 200.
 
SpoiledMan said:
Been caught in the 225HP Ford lie eh? I think this was an early 90's thing IIRC when Ford listed the HP rating on the 5.0 Mustang as being 225 when it was about 200.
Click to expand...



Oh, I remember that...in the "second" pony-car hp war. Apparently later, GM was conservative with the F-Body ratings, probably so people could get insurance more easily. I seem to remember reading a review (probably Car & Driver) where they said the numbers didn't add up, and the thing had to be putting out something like 40 more horses than they were saying to get the trap times it did. Of course, I may be remembering this completely wrong....maybe the numbers were low because if they reported the real numbers it would have been too close to the Corvette...I'm sure one of the F-Body guys will embarrass me with this...:)
 
Well, this is the first change regarding performance numbers in my lifetime (atleast that I'm aware of) so far so it's bothering me a little bit. :)



Perhaps this is nothing major at all for you folks who've been longer on earth than I've been.
 
Ever seen a dyno plot for any if Nissans 3.5 liter of Hondas 3.0 V6's? Underrated like crazy. Fill up with premium gas and the Honda makes another 10-15 HP.
 
Here's some interesting dirt I digged up and this is for Toyota in general.



2006 Solara 3.3L V6- 225hp/240lb-ft

2006 Camry SE V6 3.3L V6- 210hp/220lb-ft



*Solara was tested with premium

*Camry was tested with regular...



So, could Toyota been truthful the whole time except they just never mentioned how much HP was decreased when one uses regular compared to the recommended premium?



But the minor 3 HP drop for the Camry 4-Cyl can't be explained.
 
GM was actually the first to use this new standard. This was the standard used to rate the LS7. And not everyone's horsepower rating will drop...



The STS-V was rated at 469hp under this new SAE procedure (which is not mandatory yet), up from the 440hp previous estimates.



For fuel, cars are tested with the recommended fuel. Only cars that are recommended to run on regular are tested with regular. It's possible the recommendations for those two cars are different.



And they are different cars, so the intake and exhaust is not the same. For example, the same 4.4L S/C Northstar in the XLR-V only makes 443hp due to the differences in packaging it.
 
The 3.3L V6 does not require premium but it is recommended. It's the same engine in my mom's Sienna, theCamry SE V6, ES330, Highlander V6, & RX330.
 
Sounds like Toyota would like for the Solara to seem a bit more sporty and therefore the requirement for premium gas and the HP bump. The Camry on the other hand is considered a "family" car that has some economy to it and to further that economy is the recommendation of regular gas and the lower HP rating. Put some premium in that puppy and get the free HP.
 
I presume just for publication's sake they put premium in the Solara for the higher numbers but the Solara V6 does not require premium.



Perhaps some of the Solara owners here can say something about this.
 
SpoiledMan said:
Ever seen a dyno plot for any if Nissans 3.5 liter of Hondas 3.0 V6's? Underrated like crazy. Fill up with premium gas and the Honda makes another 10-15 HP.
Click to expand...



It's interesting that you mention this. I've never been able to find factory crank dyno graphs from any manufacturer, except GM. It could be I'm not digging in the right places, but I've looked around a lot and never seen one. I always found that rather odd.
 
I'm not talking the crank numbers but these cars with auto tranny's are giving numbers that show about a *very* small loss through the gearbox's. It simply doesn't add up to being the conservative numbers that are published. If you look at all the Nissan/Infinity cars with pretty much the same engine you notice that they pretty much all have different HP ratings. At least Honda gives the same numbers for the 3.5's til it gets put in an MDX and magically needs premium gas.
 
Hmm, like what kind of numbers? I have seen a few 350z sheets, and they are usually around 220's. This isn't indicitive of an underrated 287hp. :nixweiss
 
They have more loss than the FWD cars with the same engine YET I have seen some 3.5 Altima plots with peaks between 220~225 range.





Edit: Per a phone call I just made, those were for manual cars and not automatics.
 
TRD-22 said:
Here's some interesting dirt I digged up and this is for Toyota in general.



2006 Solara 3.3L V6- 225hp/240lb-ft

2006 Camry SE V6 3.3L V6- 210hp/220lb-ft



*Solara was tested with premium

*Camry was tested with regular...



So, could Toyota been truthful the whole time except they just never mentioned how much HP was decreased when one uses regular compared to the recommended premium?



But the minor 3 HP drop for the Camry 4-Cyl can't be explained.
Click to expand...



The Solare could have a slightly different programming in the computer to require premium and also bump the hp up somewhat.
 
But I'm more than positive that the Solara did not recieve any programming change to make it require premium for the HP boost. Do understand the Camry's 3.3L was rated the same for 2005MY but I wasn't sure if they tested with premium, like the Solara, or with regular. If octane does have an effect, then I could presume the 3.3L V6 in the Solara with regular will get 210hp.





I'll repeat this time and time again, the 3.3L V6 found in the Camry SE V6, Highlander V6, Sienna, Solara, ES330 & RX330 does not require premium. It is compatible with regular or premium.
 
OK, sounds like the SAE requirements change has only been to give the rating based on the recommended fuel requirement. The rating for the engine with regular versus premium is likely the difference between the two engines. Add premium to the others and you have the extra HP. Thank you knock sensor!
 
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