New Member 20 year Paint Engineer

R

regal

New member
I've been a paint engineer working both for the paint companies and the OEMs for 20 years. I currently work for the largest american made motorcycly company.







I've been on the management side of things along with robotic programming for a decade. Its been 15 years since I acutally spot repaired a car which now due to an accident I need to do. I (like all pait guys) bought a white car, coming here just to refresh my memory and see whats new on the repair side of things. And hope to pull off a repair of this nasty scratch on my 2 month old car.





The scratch goes all the way to ecoat and is at least an 1" wide. Plan to clean it up, glaze it, airbrush the white, 2K clear, bend clear, then where I am least experienced sand/buff to blend to the factory clear. Toyota is famous for using very thin layers of paint on these cars, A good OEM has 4 mils total including ecoat Toyota is half that on this Yaris of mine.



BTW if anyne has any engineering/technicl questions about the OEM side of the business ask away.
 
You don't know how long I have been waiting for someone like you to join this forum. We frequently have protracted arguments about paint and painting practices at OEM's, and I have opined that if only we had someone "in the business" we could easily settle them. I'm just surprised that with over 50,000 members it has taken so long.



Welcome to Autopia!



I have to say that the repair you are talking about is one that not many Autopians would attempt, as it's more of a bodyshop repair than a detailing one, but there certainly are some members who are experienced at this type of thing, and I'm sure one of them will be able to give you some advice. If not, seek out MorBid, he's a painter.



I will fire away at your offer of "OEM" questions. Why do recent cars have so much orange peel? I think there have been 3 explanations offered here: 1) The low VOC paints don't flow out well enough 2) The OEM's want this on purpose for some reason I can't remember--I think because it shows less damage 3) The OEM's do this on purpose because the use of 2-side galvanize and different plastics as well as traditional steel plus aluminum results in different surface textures between panels and the want the orange peel to mask that. What say you?
 
Ok on the orange peel, it is mainly the use of waterboarne paints where you can't get a good enough cut to atomize the paint well. But is is also that the OEMs don't want to waste any paint, think about it the better the atomization (less peel) the less paint actually hits the panel, they use bells for this. If they wanted to absorb the cost they coud have all metals match in smooth no orange peel, look at what we do with fiberglass saddle bags vs fenders (vey low orange peel.)



I am curious if you have had any luck using 2000 grit paper on the clear, then heavy swirl remover, and so on. You may be able to get rid of the orange peel at least in the clear.



As far as my repair it is really a simple one, my only apprehension is blending the aftermarket 2k urethan clear to whatever junk Toyota is spraying at the factory.





18 years ago I worked on the floor in the repair booths at the end of the S10 truck line, believe me we had to work some detailing miracles.
 
Thanks...I'm not sure I really understand your answer about the orange peel...so is it to mask the different substrate textures...or the waterborne paints are difficult to spray without it so they just let them peel and that means they just go with it and it saves them money on trying to match the different substrates?
 
yes waterboarne is difficult to avoid peel, but also themore atomization the more paint flies past the panel and is wasted. So the OEM's are trained to use little atomization to save paint, as far as matching the other substrates thats usually a teir one just matchng the oem.
 
Ok...so you're saying that it's there on purpose, but rather than a "technical" reason, it's a cost saving/emissions reason. We had this huge argument as to whether it was just had become unavoidable due to VOC, or whether it was put there on purpose, and what possible reason could there be for putting it there on purpose...and there's the answer. Thanks!
 
Its possible with the current EPA regs to deliver a zero Orange Peel vehicle, just look at ours (Harleys), they are just saving paint.
 
When you say glaze it, what exactly do you mean by that, especially since its coming before your actual painting step.



Maybe you're talking about something else that I don't know about.
 
Ahhh, another OP discussion. :har: My stance was that an OP'd surface can provide greater durability as well as scratch resistance (as well as the appearance of scratches) over a flatter, less peely finish. The tops of the peaks & valleys of the OP take the micro-abrasion primarily over one than has a flatter surface. Back when I took the Ford Truck Plant tour the guide stated that they have a template they follow for OP on each vehicle, which means they induce it on purpose. It's more than a coincidence that trucks(full sized pickups & Hummers) have more OP than most mass produced cars.
 
Dsoto87 said:
When you say glaze it, what exactly do you mean by that, especially since its coming before your actual painting step.



Maybe you're talking about something else that I don't know about.
Click to expand...



He's talking about glazing putty, which is a sandable filler used to fill in scratches and other imperfections during body work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top