Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
paco said:
Well said.
New Megs Products
- Thread starter Robb
- Start date
Well said.
imported_Aurora40
New member
ALAN81 said:
Well, in spite of what you say, I bet every single person here has been to a store before that sold detailing products. I personally have never seen one with a huge line of Meguiar's products from a similar category. Maybe they'll have a cleaner/wax, Gold Class, and Deep Crystal. But the differences in those are fairly clear. The cleaner/wax is a cleaner/wax. Deep Crystal is a $5 carnauba, and Gold Class touts itself as the flagship (or it did) and costs twice that. I've never seen Deep Crystal, #26, and #16 on the same shelf, or anything like that. And only at a pro shop have I seen #9 and SFP on the same shelf.
As to the rest of this about which product to choose, an example was brought up about #5 and how it's for places with higher humidity. But lets look at that. Say you could get #5, #3, #7, or Hand Polish from K-Mart. Well, it seems to me the difference between #3 and #7 is clear as one touts machine use, the other hand use. But it's not so clear about the rest. But here's the important thing. Whichever one you buy, it's gonna have the same result whether it has 4 other products next to it on the shelf, or no other products next to it. The contents of the bottle will not change. So if you get something that you like and it works, who the hell cares what the marketing copy is trying to position it as? If you don't want to look into it, you'll still have a product that works great. If you do want to know the exact differences, well it seems you are able to find them, because we all seem to now know that #5 is better in high humidity.
On the same note, what does them introducing new products have to do with confusion over their product line? The new product line won't cause one single product you already own to work differently than it did before. So why would new products somehow make you confused over how the existing ones work?
Oh, and Toyota doesn't share a lot of platforms? Are you kidding??
imported_Aurora40
New member
paco said:
I for one though Mike made this crystal clear. Because some products have more chemical cleaner or more abrasive cleaner, they may be stronger on one particular paint, but weaker on another, so the respective ranking depends on what kind of paint you are using it on. Same with abrasive types, smaller abrasives that break down more slowly may make a product more abrasive by one application method than another, but maybe less abrasive with a different application method. So there is no one universal ranking. But you do get a good idea of the rankings right from the bottle. For example SFP is probably a ton milder than Diamond Cut no matter what kind of paint or application technique.
I think if you want to do serious correction on a car and minimize excessive paint removal, etc, it isn't too much to expect that you have some familiarity with the products you want to use, and that you do some testing to see which is the appropriate one for that job. I think if a company tried to tout just one polish as the one for serious defect removal, in spite of the ease of choosing what to buy, I'd be a little hesitant to use it.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
Aurora40 said:
Thanks for catching that, of course they do, that's how it's done today, and for a long time.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
Aurora40 said:
Of course, you're right...just sometimes it requires too much analysis...maybe they need a flow chart on their website to help you pick the right product for the task at hand.
As far as your comments about the new products not making the others more confusing...I think my complaint is that it's "NXT" shine...is it really different? If it was another Hot Shine...and they were labeled #1 thru #4, high to low gloss, then it would be easy to see where it was in the range...but now...if I go to Pep Boys, I will see NXT Insane Shine, Hot Shine High Gloss Aerosol, Hot Shine High Gloss Trigger, Endurance, and Endurance High Gloss. If we just look at the aerosols...which is shinier, Insane or High Gloss? Is one solvent-borne, the other water-borne? It won't say on the can. Or does the NXT really have "ESP" which makes it better than Hot Shine? And do they really need to keep the Hot Shine then, at a buck less a can?
I think we're just arguing around in circles here for nothing, so I'm not going to post anything else to this thread. I don't have my shorts in a bunch, I hope nobody else does.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
Inzane said:Wow, don't you think that's really limiting yourself? I guess you probably don't read (and enjoy) Brock Yates monthly column in Car & Driver, eh?Oh well, I'm off topic and that's a discussion for another day.
I was making a point about how GM's products can be confusing, and I was identifying myself as a GM fan and owner so I wouldn't be accused of GM bashing without any background. And my collection of C/D goes back to about 1977, that's every issue since then.
sgo
New member
Really?Aurora40 said:
Other than price and some jibber-jabber, what exactly IS the difference between Deep Crystal and Gold Class? Oh yes, the packaging. That helps alot.
One is "cutting-edge" and "reflective." That helps alot too. Ok, for some reason, unknown to the casual eye, one boasts a lot more and costs more, so that must be the better one. Right? So how exactly does this make it better?Still confused??
Mike_Phillips
Administrator
Buick_guy1 said:
I'm still around...
I stay pretty busy, for the most part, I'm never caught up, always behind... not a good thing. I'm reading all of the messages in this thread and absorbing what's being said and who's saying it.
All I can say is... Meguiar's is listening... and changes are in the works...
Interesting points of views being shared here, that's for sure.
Mike
topnotchtouch
New member
I hear a lot of lumping all the different lines consumer, professional, detailer and body shop together. I think one thing I am hearing from this is people are expecting Meguiars to take responsibility for the users lack of experience and basically hand hold them in the use of products that are designed for professionals. This is along the same lines of someone who has never used a rotary buffer getting mad at the manufacturer because they didn't provide a manual that told you exactly how to use it. There is some expectation here that if you are going to buy a product from the professional lines that you have some experience with these types of products.
As Aurora40 already pointed out there is really no way you can accurately rank abrassives from 1-10 in ALL situations. Just one example that comes to mind is #80 and #82. #80 is a 4 on Meguiars scale and #82 is a 3. That would lead you to believe that #80 is more agressive than #82 which it is but, the abrassives in #80 break down rather quickly whereas the abrassives in #82 take longer to break down so in effect #82 can be just as effective if you work it longer. There are reasons for the different products, just because they are not readily apparent to you does not mean there is no reason for them. There is just no replacement for experience.
Now, if we are going to talk about JUST the consumer line I would tend to agree there is some overlap there. As others have said though Meguiars is probably re-evaluating older products and will probably discontinue some of them when they run out of stock. Keep in mind that with the new VOC regulations quickly approaching you are going to see a lot of companies either disappear or as has been phrased "re-invent" themselves.
As Aurora40 already pointed out there is really no way you can accurately rank abrassives from 1-10 in ALL situations. Just one example that comes to mind is #80 and #82. #80 is a 4 on Meguiars scale and #82 is a 3. That would lead you to believe that #80 is more agressive than #82 which it is but, the abrassives in #80 break down rather quickly whereas the abrassives in #82 take longer to break down so in effect #82 can be just as effective if you work it longer. There are reasons for the different products, just because they are not readily apparent to you does not mean there is no reason for them. There is just no replacement for experience.
Now, if we are going to talk about JUST the consumer line I would tend to agree there is some overlap there. As others have said though Meguiars is probably re-evaluating older products and will probably discontinue some of them when they run out of stock. Keep in mind that with the new VOC regulations quickly approaching you are going to see a lot of companies either disappear or as has been phrased "re-invent" themselves.
It's only reasonable for a manufacturer to introduce their new line of products before they discontinue some overlapping legacy products. No? Give them time.
Personally, I'm pleased with more choices...you can't get anal with only one or two products!
I agree with some of the comments as regards labelling. The contemporary consumer tends to be more teachable (and perhaps, more demanding/discriminating) than in days of yore.
Its good to see Megs getting into brushes and towels. They may, or may not, end up being the best equipment on the market (we'll just have to try them), but at least if Joe Average buys a MF towel (or anything) from a reputable company like Megs, he knows it won't be cheap and nasty like some supermarket MF. In other word, a Megs product can be trusted to produce, at least, a good result...and that should be welcome.
The same goes for the new Mothers products just released.
More quality choices for us, and let the marketing people discover whether their choices were wise.
Personally, I'm pleased with more choices...you can't get anal with only one or two products!
I agree with some of the comments as regards labelling. The contemporary consumer tends to be more teachable (and perhaps, more demanding/discriminating) than in days of yore.
Its good to see Megs getting into brushes and towels. They may, or may not, end up being the best equipment on the market (we'll just have to try them), but at least if Joe Average buys a MF towel (or anything) from a reputable company like Megs, he knows it won't be cheap and nasty like some supermarket MF. In other word, a Megs product can be trusted to produce, at least, a good result...and that should be welcome.
The same goes for the new Mothers products just released.
More quality choices for us, and let the marketing people discover whether their choices were wise.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
I have to add one more thing for you guys to think about...if you ask for a Meguiar's print catalog, my latest one is 28 pages of content. Out of that, there are 4 pages related to paint care, which includes wash, clay, polish, wax, and QD. Sure, there are a few more pages (6 to be exact) with "collections" that include paint care products, but the majority of the catalog is focused on topics other than paint care (and no, it's not all wheel and interior products, they take up 4 pages).
I mean, I need a carbon fiber business card holder as much as the next guy, but I kind of expect the major content of the catalog to be related to detailing.
I mean, I need a carbon fiber business card holder as much as the next guy, but I kind of expect the major content of the catalog to be related to detailing.
jfelbab
New member
Hey, careful, I love my carbon fiber business card holder. I get comments about it from several of my customers. :xyxthumbs
sgo
New member
I don't think people automatically come with experience. Everyone has to start somewhere. If you expect me to make my own choice, wouldn't I need enough information to do that? That is MY beef. Too many products without enough information to make an INFORMED choice. And then you throw in the "consumer" line pitted against the "professional" line. Hey, I might be a dumb beginner with zero knowledge, but I'm smart enough to know that the "professional" line is much superior to the "consumer" line -- right? Are you getting MY point yet? You point out the differences between #80 and #82 -- that is the kind of information that I need to make an informed decision.rjstaaf said:
I believe Meguiar's should put enough of that type of information on their labels. What is it? Where does it fit in the grand scheme of things? When would I want to use it? Help me choose the RIGHT product and I'll be a happier customer for it. If the only difference between this "consumer" bottle and the "professional" grade is, this is 16 ounces and that is 1 gallon, I think that should be mentioned.
Anyway, I think I've had enough of this discussion so with this I'll bid ado to this thread.
topnotchtouch
New member
SteveOst said:
Again, the professional lines are neither intended for or marketed to the consumer. If you want to use them you are gonna have to learn the same way everyone else does.
There is absolutely no way Meguiars could fit that kind of information on a label. There are many variables that have to be taken into consideration like the hardness of your paint, the severity of the defect, whether you are working by hand or machine. There is absolutely no way Meguairs can tell you what product is correct for each and every situation without knowing what the situation is to begin with so expecting them to put that on a label is just rediculous.
Anyway, I think I've had enough of this discussion so with this I'll bid ado to this thread.
You are trying to take the quick route and bypass what takes most people a long time to learn and it just isn't going to happen. A good place to start learning is right here.
the other pc
New member
Only that they have a broad line of nearly identical products but still have plenty of customers for the different lines.
Unlike car companies, sales channels for Meg's different lines aren't right next door to each other. John Q. Public will never set foot in a paint shop.
Very true. "Leveraging resources" as the suits like to call it is definitely a two-edged sword. The key is how you wield it. You can use it to improve quality and value to the customer or to cut costs and quality hoping to line your own pockets at your customers' expense. We've certainly seen car companies do both.
I personally believe that Meg's does a much better job of keeping focused on the customer than the big car companies.
Originally posted by Setec Astronomy ...loved your little family of users!
Thanks!
Yeah, the Meg's consumer catalog does seem a bit broader in scope than a waxaholic might expect. I would guess that it's a response to the automotive "lifestyle" phenomenon.
Call Meg's 800# and ask the rep to send you the flyers for the Pro and Detailer lines (heck, get the Marine flyer too). They're much shorter and to the point.
PC.
Meguiar's should provide enough information that the user can make an informed decision on the label and then provide detailed information on the website.
The web is probably one of the single most useful tools available to them (I wish Car Crazy would have a 2-5 min segment on detailing) these days. Why not use it effectively.
The small video's were a good start.
I don't understand why they stop producing additional videos.
The forum is okay at Meguiars but they really should setup a technical library where then describe the products and how to apply them effectively.
The web is probably one of the single most useful tools available to them (I wish Car Crazy would have a 2-5 min segment on detailing) these days. Why not use it effectively.
The small video's were a good start.
I don't understand why they stop producing additional videos.
The forum is okay at Meguiars but they really should setup a technical library where then describe the products and how to apply them effectively.
imported_Aurora40
New member
paco said:
Yes, they really should compile more of their product info into web form. I think that would be great, maybe with some history of each product, what it's original intended use was, etc. Some of the products in their lineup are really really old, old enough that it surprised me. I think #7 and #5 are at least 50 years old?
I do agree they have a lot of consumer products in the same catagories, and it does seem a bit overkill. I just don't see it as some horrible thing or something that would make me suspicious of their products. I think one reason they don't drop products is that there may be some people who still really use/like them. I'm sure there are still some die-hard Gold Class users, even though you and I would probably prefer to see it dropped. I guess if it doesn't lose money, and some person likes it, what's the harm?
imported_RIC
New member
What did Rod Kraft say will be the difference between the Professional 640z version of NXT and the regular consumer retail version?
I thought NXT is already marketed as a Synthetic Sealant.
I thought NXT is already marketed as a Synthetic Sealant.