New M105 is kicking but w/ KB method

Spilchy said:
What is this KB method with a PC or Flex? I see it mentioned all over but what is it referring too? BigJim's link seems to be different from what weekendwarrior understands it to be.



Can someone clarify the KB - Flex/PC method and the KB - rotary method?



+1



It was alluded to that the method is different with a PC or Flex but no one has explained how.
 
Bryan has summarized the Kevin Brown method thusly:



1. Prime an orange pad with a good amount of M105. I draw lines accross the pad and fold it in half.



2. Press the pad onto a MF or clean cotton towel on a table and turn on your PC/Flex to 1 for about 20 seconds.



3. Apply a pea sized dot of M105 to the pad.



4. PC on 6 or flex on 5- Apply alot of pressure and go slow working a 18"x18" area. Do not wipe off.



5. Prime an grey LC pad the same way as above. PC on 4, go over the area with the grey pad using less pressure. Wipe and inspect. Sometimes I need some IPA to get the panel to wipe clean.



Now on a silver or white paint, you might be done here. I find that on darker colors I go over the entire car again with ZPC.



When you do the 2nd section, run the pad into the MF again. You will find that you will get less cut each time. So I use the pad on 2 sections and get out a fresh pad. Of course you have to prime that pad too.
 
The KB method is SIMPLY amazing. I find it to work great for all heavy to medium polishing (minus wet sanding scratch removal) and to answer a couple questions...



Yes, it has the potential to save time vs. a rotary. There are SO many factors involved with that question it isn't even possible to give an accurate, blanket answer.



Because the abrasives in M105 do not break down (in the traditional sense) the total amount of cut is dependent on the the pressure used and the length the product is worked for. The longer the product is worked into the the paint, the greater the total cut.



I hide the Kevin Brown Method (KBM) ideal in these particular circumstance.



Soft paint with deep RIDS. Chasing deep RIDS on soft paint with a rotary can be an exhausting experience. Aggressive pads and compounds can leave more marring that you have to chase deeper to remove. In this case the KBM simply buzzes them out quickly.



Paint with consistent RIDS through out. Again no more chasing.



Hard paint with 'stubborn' (medium depth) swirls that would require two passes with a medium polish to remove on a rotary otherwise. Again work until removed, then go to finishing polish.



Also M205 is another AMAZING product, especially when used with a non-reticulated foam pad. Keeping in mind that non-diminishing abrasive polishes are particularly sensitive to pressure (both with a rotary and ROB/DA) because they don't break down under pressure but rather work more, it is possible to get HUGE amounts of correction with M205 with high pressure and slow movement, yet finish out perfect.



I have found my rotaries (all four of them) sitting on the bench in favor of my PC and flex.



Thank you Kevin Brown!
 
ever since getting 105 I have been using it with the pc and orange pad...and I dont have the newer version of this stuff either...



like I have said before, pc+105+lo pro lc orange 5.5"=a dream!!!
 
I have found my rotaries (all four of them) sitting on the bench in favor of my PC and flex.



Thank you Kevin Brown!



Thats sig worthy coming from someone like you. Definitely shows how times have changed. Technology is making things a lot easier and safer
 
Yeah most of us has either sold or put our old PC's up and bought something more current. Now, PC sales are going to go through the roof. Crazy.



What about Meguiar's D-151 PRC? What type of abrasives are involved here?
 
jeff - D151 can also be used with this method....similar abraisives.



it is really a pretty cool method...here are a few takeaways that *can* make it quicker than using the rotary:



remember, you aren't having to work a polish until abraisives are broken down. this has been what, in the past, has taken a PC longer to achieve correction. with these new abraisives, that's not an issue.



you don't have to tape up as much on the car, as you don't have to worry about burning as much as you would with the rotary.



you don't have to worry about holigrams reappearing. granted, you *could* get some micromarring that could possibly show up later, but i haven't experrienced this.



EDIT: last Monday, I polished a 55 VW Beetle that had just been painted at a restoration shop. We wetsanded with 2000 after it came out of paint. I used 3M ECC with wool on the rotary to remove the wetsanding marks. I then followed with the KB method on the PC, with M86 Solo polish and a white 5.5" LC low profile pad. This was a lighter colored car, but appeared LSP ready. I had the guys at the shop push it outside in the sun for a few days last week. I went back Monday night, and nothing had reappeared on me.



After the car is reassembled, I am going to finish it out with M205 with the PC and a finishing pad before the customer picks it up, just to see if we can get a little more gloss.
 
Guys, The master himself Kevin Brown has contacted me. He is in the middle of writing a process sheet out. I have seen some of it and it is very thorough. He or I hope to have it posted here in a few days.
 
FWIW, guys, and you can check my before and after posts for this--wehaven't used a rotary in a long time......



With M105 and a flex and an orange pad on *most* paints it's just quicker than a rotary. It is especially quicker considering that you typically don't have to tape, mask, etc.





Todd, what do you consider a "non-reticulating" foam pad? We use ours with a red ccs pad--I would prefer it totally flat, but....
 
Bryan (gmblack3a) just forwarded me this write up from Kevin. Bryan asked me to post it, as he's about to start working on a car. It will probably take a couple of posts, so wait to respond on it until I have posted the wole thing.



**THIS IS KEVIN BROWN'S METHOD, not mine, and I am in no way trying to take any kind of credit, just forwarding the details on his method**



Part 1:

Kevin Brown’s method for applying Meguiar's M105 Ultra Cut Compound or M86 So1o

Cut & Polish Cream with a random-orbital:

I've found that M105 Ultra Cut Compound and M86 So1o Cut & Polish Cream

deliver best results when used in a similar manner. Not surprising, given that both

liquids utilize non-diminishing abrasive technology. The directions below apply to both

liquids, but M105 is referred to in the directions.

• M86 is NOT recommended for use with a random-orbital.

• M105 original formula is NOT recommended for use with a random-orbital.

• M105 updated formula IS recommended for use with a random-orbital.

Results may vary, so it is best to practice this method on a test panel prior to using it on

a vehicle. All recommendations are in reference to applying these liquids via RANDOMORBITAL

machine. This method also works well with a forced-rotation/fixed-orbit

machine (such as the popular Flex 3401VRG).

A different method should be used if polishing paint with a rotary machine.

Generally:

• M105 outperforms M86 in terms of speed for removing defects.

• M105 is capable of leaving a near perfect finish, but not on all types of paint.

• Original formula M105 can be difficult to remove, especially on very dry paint (old,

heavily oxidized, or improperly mixed prior to spraying).

• M86 is bulletproof- it works well on virtually ANY type of paint.

• M86 can occasionally outperform M105 in terms of defect removal and final finish.

• M86 remains workable for a long period of time.



con't....
 
great thread everyone. I was reading on this KB method last week. I found it a little funny with the whole prming the pad, spinning it in a MF etc...



However, now I find myself coming on car this weekend and the customer is ONLY interested in removing ALL swirls. No interior, no wheels JUST correction. Since my only machine is a PC, this request would normally make me a little nervous as this would be a challenge in the past.



I do have both M105 and M205 and this is what I am planning to use. PFW was going to be my pad choice but I also have 6-8 5.5" orange pads.



I suppose I need to study the KB method a little more.



KEEP IT COMING!!!! Hopefully we'll see this write-up Keving is working.
 
Part 2:

M105 Ultra Cut Compound used with a RANDOM-ORBITAL for DEFECT removal:

PRIME:

First, prime the pad with an ample amount of M105. Rub it in aggressively (by hand) to

ensure complete pad coverage. If needed, continue to add more buffing liquid until it is

visually obvious that the pad face is consistently primed, and feels moist to the touch.

The goal is to fill the pores of the pad face with buffing liquid. Priming the pad in this

manner dramatically increases the surface area of buffing liquid that will be in contact

with the paint surface.

It is not necessary nor is it desirable to create an excess buildup of M105 on the pad.

Too much buildup above the surface of the pad can decrease overall performance.

AVOID priming the pad with a fine mist of water, Final Inspection, Last Touch, (or any

other similar product). Why?

While wetting the pad or surface increases wetness, it does not necessarily add lubricity.

In fact, if too much wetting agent is added, it can help to wash away (or displace) the

buffing liquid’s built-in lubricating ingredients.

Original formula M105 can get a bit dusty at times. This is both

unfortunate AND fortunate. While the dusting is bothersome, it helps to remove

the contamination-laden and moisture-deprived abrasive from a freshly polished surface.

Since M105's abrasive is so fine, the addition of moisture AFTER it has been run through

its working cycle helps gather all the abrasive dust remnants. The micro-sized abrasive

particles remain very aggressive, and mechanically pack together. This grouping of

particle matter creates larger particles, uneven in size & shape. This is NOT desirable,

and leads to swirling.

Once clumping of the abrasive is encountered, the only way to COMPLETELY remove it is

to rinse the pad in soapy water. The pad useless until it air dries, and you’ll have to

install a new one to complete your polishing work. I've used a combined process

utilizing a thorough brush of the pad, then compressed air to remove remaining

remnants, and microfiber toweling, without consistent satisfaction. If you want to

achieve cutting-edge performance, don't cut corners... Use several pads to complete the

session.

The main point is: The abrasive in M105 relies on its lubricants to deliver stellar finishing

results. Further, M105 is at its peak performance when it’s dispersed evenly across the

pad. Use too much, or overdo a spritz of water (causing particle clumping), and you'll

end up with fine swirling.



con't...
 
Part 3:

DEFECT REMOVAL:

After proper priming of the pad has been completed, apply a normal amount of M105 to

the pad. A slower speed setting is desirable, as it helps to minimize fast evaporation of

M105’s lubrication. M105 will effectively cut defects at a very low speed setting, but

typically yields great results on speed setting (4.0-5.0/G100). For HEAVY defect

removal, you may have to use the maximum speed setting. Maximum speed really

shortens the working-cycle of the liquid, and definitely abuses the polishing pads. If you

must use high speed, implement pad swaps (of fresh and similar pads) during your

polishing session.

Use normal to heavy CONSISTENT downward pressure, combined with very slow

movement of the machine (as slow as one inch per second). Four to six slow passes

should do the trick. Once the product has run its working cycle, wipe the surface clean.

If the wipe off is difficult, mist the paint with water or a wipe-off spray, wait a few

seconds, then wipe. If some residue remains, apply a bit of M105 to a dampened

microfiber (rinse in water, then ring to remove excess), and apply to the surface.

AVOID using any other cleaners, polishes, or waxes to remove residue! Many products

contain oils, solvents, etc., that may temporarily alter the surface hardness,

slipperiness, etc., of the paint. Inspect, and if needed, reapply M105 and repeat the

defect removal step. Wipe surface completely clean when all defects are removed.

Reapply as needed to completely remove remaining surface defects.



con't...
 
Part 4:

FINAL POLISHING:

Once you’ve satisfactorily removed surface defects, prepare for final polishing. Install a

finishing pad (my preference is the Meguiar’s W9006 SoftBuff® tan pad). Prime the pad

(as previously recommended). DO NOT USE AN ABUNDANCE OF PRODUCT. For

3

polishing, a primed pad is essential to satisfactory results, while LESS working liquid

(rather than MORE) delivers the best finish. Use a slow to medium speed setting (1.5-

4.0/G100). You cannot overuse M105, as long as the pad stays moist (and it shouldn’t

scour).

Once your working cycle is done, evaluate the surface. If you feel the need to repeat

the polishing process, use the following method (random-orbital ONLY): Set the pad

into a microfiber towel, and turn on the machine. The microfiber will remove a majority

of the residue, oils, and paint from the pad. USE CAUTION- Make sure the towel does

not get caught in the drive mechanism!

Repeat the same process at least once more, but use a bit MORE pressure and even

LESS product during your second application. Some paints yield even better results

when the pad is simply cleaned, and NO ADDITIONAL PRODUCT is applied. There is a

learning curve involved when attempting to final polish paint with this method. Take the

time to give this step a chance. When done correctly, the final finish should be

stunning.

Occasionally, the surface may need an application of polish to further refine the finish.

M82 Swirl-Free Polish or M205 Ultra Finishing Polish have both performed well for

me.

When using Meguiar’s M82 Swirl-Free Polish:

This product features diminishing abrasives.

To apply: First, set the machine speed to a slow speed setting. As a starting point, use

a 3.0 setting for the G100/PC/UDM, or a 1.0 setting for the G110/220. Next, install a

fresh finishing pad (such as the Meguiar’s W9006 6.5â€� SoftBuffâ„¢ Finishing Pad) and

properly prime it. Allow the product to soak into the pad for approximately one minute.

Apply an adequate amount of polishing liquid to the pad (a thin circle of liquid applied

near the outer edge of the pad’s face, or an X pattern crossing the face will suffice).

Turn the machine on, and apply. Adjust buffer speed and downward pressure to a level

that allows the pad to rotate 1 to 3 times per second. Since this product features

diminishing abrasives, use less downward pressure as the working cycle advances.

When using Meguiar’s M205 Ultra Finishing Polish:

This product features non-diminishing abrasives.

To apply: First, set the machine speed to a medium speed setting. As a starting point,

use a 4.0 setting for the G100/PC/UDM or a 2.0 setting for the G110/G220. Next, install

a fresh finishing pad (such as the Meguiar’s W9006 6.5â€� SoftBuffâ„¢ Finishing Pad) and

properly prime it. Allow the product to soak into the pad for approximately one to two

minutes. Then, apply small drops of polish directly to the pad and massage in thoroughly

(typically, 5 to 7 half-inch drops will suffice). Turn the machine on, and apply. Adjust

buffer speed and downward pressure to a level that allows the pad to rotate 3 to 6 times

per second. Since this product features non-diminishing abrasives, consistent downward

pressure should be used throughout the application cycle.

Kevin Brown



the end
 
That sounds like something I''ll have to try. In the past I have just tried misting QD or distilled water to prolong the working time but I was never 100% satisfied with that.
 
I removed my previous posts about the method. I am on the phone with Kevin, and he will soon be posting a better write up, with pictures (i think), and more explanation to remove all possible confusion.
 
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