New M105 is kicking but w/ KB method

G

gmblack3

New member
Black Lexus SC430

Kevin Brown Method (thanks KB!) Orange pad, PC6, lots o' pressure.



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Its leaving some slight micro marring, so I will go over the whole car after w/ M205.



My experience so far with the new M105:

Wipes off much easier.

Finishes off better.

Cuts just as good. (I have not used it on a hard clear yet)



YMMV. :2thumbs:
 
Just to add a bit to Bryan's observations...and he and I have discussed these points on the phone a few times...



Kevin emailed me a write up of this method about a year ago, and I have been experimenting a lot myself over the past year. You can use the KB method with an Orange LC pad, a Flex, and speed 6 on hard Vette clears, and it works like a charm.





M105, 95, 86 (Solo polish), the new Ultimate Compound, SwirlX (I think), and 205 are all non diminishing abraisives, and can be used with the KB method. On some paints, the 86 Solo polish will cut just as well, and finish better than 105.



My next test will be using this method with 3M Extra Cut Compound.
 
Kevin and I have talked quite a bit about the pad priming technique.



Basically, you are having the product available in every pore of the pad, which increases the cutting power. Sometimes, the product does not get into every pore, so do not utilize the entire surface of the pad.



Some things to note about pad priming:

-Increased cutting

-Better finish

-No more flashing problems

-More even polishing - less likely to hop







How's the M205 working out? I had a tiny bit of trouble on a black Toyota a while back.
 
PorscheGuy997 said:
Kevin and I have talked quite a bit about the pad priming technique.



Basically, you are having the product available in every pore of the pad, which increases the cutting power. Sometimes, the product does not get into every pore, so do not utilize the entire surface of the pad.



Some things to note about pad priming:

-Increased cutting

-Better finish

-No more flashing problems

-More even polishing - less likely to hop







How's the M205 working out? I had a tiny bit of trouble on a black Toyota a while back.
Click to expand...



Exactly...when you prime the entire pad, you are spreading the non diminishing, uniformed (in terms of size) abraisives, and you are making the primed pad like a piece of sandpaper. Then, when attached to the PC with the orbital throw, it makes it like you are machine wet sanding, and the lubricants in the polish are serving like the water does in wetsanding. All in all, a very nice technique.
 
Anyone want to repost the KB method?? I am sure alot of the forum members are wondering what it is? I have it saved but want to make sure I have the proper technique.
 
Pats300zx said:
Anyone want to repost the KB method?? I am sure alot of the forum members are wondering what it is? I have it saved but want to make sure I have the proper technique.
Click to expand...



I would appreciate the post. I have no idea what the KB method is.
 
please read the whole thread as there is good info it



but "the Kevin Brown method"

can be found on page #2, post #16:



http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/112746-2-passes-m105-wool-no-luck-2.html



Kevin Brown said:
Since you've already got the M105 and the wool pad (plus plenty of others)...



Go ahead and try this:



1. Prime the pad THOROUGHLY.

Rub it in with your hand. It'll take a bit more than you're used to applying.



2. Apply a bead of M105 to the surface, pull it in, and polish at low speed (1000 rpm).

Try 2-3 passes, or until the M105 is just starting to dry.



3. Using a fine mist, spray the surface with water.

Do not add additional product- Just re-polish with what's already in the pad.



I think you'll see a 50% improvement in the cut, but you'll probably see an increase in swirling (it can be easily removed).



After trying this method (count it as one cycle), spur the wool pad (blow it clean with compressed air if you have it).



I won't PROMISE a better result, but I am pretty sure you're going to GET a better result.
Click to expand...
 
I would never have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes. The KB method works awesome. I didn't think I would ever use my PC ROB again until I found the KB method.



My only question is has anybody done any test with a paint depth guage to verify how much clear coat it is actually removing? Is it comparable to wet sanding or remove more or less cc? I would love to hear what people with paint depth guages have found.
 
This is very interesting.



So this method is using a compound to cut and it finishes out. This in turn saves times against the rotary that would use multiple steps.



How is the dusting? I bet there is none since the pad never dries out.

Oh yeah. How do you clean the pad out or do you not clean it in between panels?
 
jefftheman said:
This is very interesting.



So this method is using a compound to cut and it finishes out. This in turn saves times against the rotary that would use multiple steps.



How is the dusting? I bet there is none since the pad never dries out.

Oh yeah. How do you clean the pad out or do you not clean it in between panels?
Click to expand...



Well, the M105 doesn't always finish out LSP ready in 1 step. It all depends on pad type, and of course, the paint itself. HOWEVER, you can sometimes use M105 on an Orange or White pad for defect removal, then follow with M105 again on a finishing pad, using the same method, and be LSP ready. Like I said previously, sometimes M86 will finish out better than M105, so you can use the KB method with a cutting pad and M105, then follow with M86 on a finishing pad with the KB method.



Regarding pad cleaning...you clean the pad after every panel by rubbing a microfiber towel against the pad. Sometimes, I'll just swith to a clean pad half way through.



**DO NOT try to wash your pad and use it damp. This can lead to the abraisives clumping, and cause micro marring.
 
I use a new pad every time. I cant get enough cut using the same pad, even after cleaning it onto a MF. YMMV....



Dust is pretty bad for me. I am wearing a dust mask.
 
gmblack3a said:
I use a new pad every time. I cant get enough cut using the same pad, even after cleaning it onto a MF. YMMV....



Dust is pretty bad for me. I am wearing a dust mask.
Click to expand...



That is very interesting. I am using the old version of 105, and have used the method with 86, and have no issues with dust what so ever. I am getting by with 2 pads on an average size car.



Bryan, have you tried it with 3m ECC yet?
 
gmblack3a said:
I use a new pad every time. I cant get enough cut using the same pad, even after cleaning it onto a MF. YMMV....



Dust is pretty bad for me. I am wearing a dust mask.
Click to expand...





I rinsed my pad out before starting and between panels. Then I would squash the pad between a thick cotton towel to pull all the excess water out of it. I am using an orange CCS pad and if I do not wet it first and then dry with towel the pad is too firm.



Once I remove my defects I just jewel the paint with my rotary and some 085RD but suspect I could finish with my PC if I wanted to.
 
What is this KB method with a PC or Flex? I see it mentioned all over but what is it referring too? BigJim's link seems to be different from what weekendwarrior understands it to be.



Can someone clarify the KB - Flex/PC method and the KB - rotary method?
 
Spilchy said:
What is this KB method with a PC or Flex? I see it mentioned all over but what is it referring too? BigJim's link seems to be different from what weekendwarrior understands it to be.



Can someone clarify the KB - Flex/PC method and the KB - rotary method?
Click to expand...



I used my Porter Cable ROB. I suspect you could use a Flex also. I cannot say first hand since this method was passed down to me and I was told use the Porter Cable.
 
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