New Guy ready for next step...a little help?

[btmlinedan]

Hey guys!

Although I've been lurking through autopia for a while now, I finally decide to sign up and start asking questions. With all the references to tons of different products I'm not sure where to start or what's good or too harsh.



I have a black bmw 540i/6 that I am probably over protected of. It's my first "nice" car so I'm trying to keep it that way. I'm the guy that always parks far away from everyone else so that nobody dings or knicks it, and my g/f hates me for it, haha...anyone else? I'm deathly afraid of damaging my paint, so have read almost all the newbie threads and still wanting to learn.



Anyway, I've been into cleaning for a while, but ready to move *up* per say on to the good stuff. I'm not looking to break my bank or start a business, just understand I could spend a few more dollars and get a much nicer product, with much nicer results (just like any hobby that starts to get serious.).



At the moment, I have no machine polisher. From what I've read i've love the pc 7424 but just not in the cards right now...





NOW:: DOWN TO BUSINESS.

The car is always kept in the garage, and I have a beater for the snow / salt / rain. I hand detailed it last spring using clay, megquires polish, and NXT wax and had pretty good results (i'd post pics but i'm a newb so probably a rule against that).



The car is in the garage awaiting some new m5 parts, and the weather is terrible so figure it's a great time to clean her up. I've already washed the car (go 2 bucket method!) and clayed the car and was surprised by how much easier it was this time around.



I'm looking for advise for what to do next?! I can get my hands on one of these $30 buffers (not a high speed with attachments, the kinds was bonnets) if it's going to help, but i'm wanting to remove some swirls in the paint, make is rich and deep, and protect it with a wax. I'm ready to order something online (as i figure it's better than the autozone stuff), just don't know what's good to use without a pc, or if i can get by with one a non-high speed bummer.



Experts chime in, im' ready to be schooled! Thanks!

 

[RIDDLE]

id probably save your money and not get the buffer- i bought one a while ago and it sucks big time.

if you dont mind the work, you can get a fair amount done just by hand

 

[Boxilator]

I think I’m in the same place in the detailing world as you are. I’ve taken good care of my cars over the years, mostly with OTC products, and I’ve read a lot on the forums, but I’ve never reached the level of OCD that seems to be the norm for real detailers.



Anyway, I have a black 325is that has been maintained by hand for 15 years and it still looks good. If your car has metallic black paint that is essentially unflawed (new w/ no damage), I’m sure that I would be satisfied with hand application if I were in your place.



If you have BMW’s jet black paint, you need to check out posts from other Autopians to find out what you’re dealing with.



Good luck; I’ll be following the responses to your thread.

 

[Accumulator]

btmlinedan- Welcome to Autopia!



You already have the right idea- don't damage the paint in the first place :xyxthumbs



What year is your 540? BMW clear ranges from *very* hard to incredibly soft depending on the color and model year.



I agree with the previous posts, skip the cheapie buffer; the PC is the *minimum* that I'd spend money on. I'd work by hand until if/when you decide to invest in a good polisher.



For polishing by hand, there aren't all that many viable options, but as noted it's absolutely possible to keep a car nice without using an electric polisher. Just gotta use the right stuff and put in the time/effort.



Don't worry about using something "too harsh". There aren't many aggressive products that work well by hand anyhow.



M105 works well for serious correction, but you'll need to do a follow up with something milder. I've used it, on hard clear, and it works. Yeah, it's aggressive, but that *really* just means that you won't spend forever with little to show for it.



Other than that, I always recommend 1Z brand polishes for by-hand use. Their stuff is quite user-friendly by hand. You might also try the Meguiar's 205, but I haven't tried that yet and I hesitate to recommend something I haven't used myself.



No, you might not attain absolute perfection (though with the M105 as a first step you never know), but you'll still effect a significant improvement.

 

[btmlinedan]

Hey Guys, thanks for the heads up-

The car is a 99 (9/98 vanos) and it's Jet Black II (Schwarz II 668).



Box-- what are you referring to about the clear amount and jet black? Something I should know about before I move forward? The car is in the garage and has just been clayed, and isn't going anywhere until it's finished.



Accu- i'd love to get a 7424 in the next few months, just stinks you can only polish your car so much, haha. I'm sure once I had it I would start doing my g/fs car, friends, etc...



I have heard really good things about the FK-1000p wax, and the pink wax...just not sure which one to try...And since i'm ordering from FK probably should get a sealant or polish im' guessing? I'm not even sure when to apply a sealant, or whatever. Polish, then Wax, then seal?



For what it's worth, here are some pictures from last spring when I clayed / hand polished, and hand waxed it. I'm looking forward to making it shine even more this year

I'm guessing it held up well, when I clayed the car the other night I had minimal rough spots, but the clay bar still looked like it pulled some contamination, just not as much as I did it last year.

 

[Accumulator]

Hey Guys, thanks for the heads up-

The car is a 99 (9/98 vanos) and it's Jet Black II (Schwarz II 668)...

AFAIK (and that's not much, I'm no Bimmer expert by a long shot), your car is from back when all of 'em had hard clear. My '97 M3 is *hard*. If you had the later (?) stupid-soft clear you'd know by now

I have heard really good things about the FK-1000p wax, and the pink wax...just not sure which one to try...And since i'm ordering from FK probably should get a sealant or polish im' guessing? I'm not even sure when to apply a sealant, or whatever. Polish, then Wax, then seal?

Polish, *seal*, then wax. But I just pick a sealant or a wax and use the one I think is right for the situation.



Sorry, no experience with FK polishes, but since you're working by hand I stand by my previous recommendations.

 

[btmlinedan]

can you link me some 1z products? perhaps a seal, polish and wax

 

[Accumulator]

btmlinedan- I usually get mine from Aloha & Welcome to Our Oasis for All Your Auto Detailing, Auto Detailing Supplies, Auto Detailing Equipment, Auto Detailing Products, & Auto Detailing Accessories for all your Automobile Detailing



If you used the M105 for anything serious, you oughta do OK with their Paint Polish for a follow-up. That's generally what I recommend..it leaves some wax behind so the choice of LSP oughta take that into account. I almost always use Collinite brand wax over 1Z PP.

 

[Accumulator]

But I'd find out if your clear is hard/med/super-soft before buying anything. I do think you'd have noticed it being really soft by now, but you never know...

 

[Danspeed1]

The PC is a very nice unit, and so is the Makita Rotary, but if your just working on that one vehicle, and your using the polisher on a limited basis you can easily get away with a sears polisher for $40-50. Whats good about the sears is even though its a rotary, its so weak its hard to mess up the paint, or any rubber. The PC is a safe solution, and from what I have seen (i've never used one, I like my rotary) you can get some fantastic results out of it, both on a car with awesome paint, and a car with poor paint. But for what your looking to do, it doesn't seem like you need to spend even remotely that much. I used "them" (sears polisher) for years before I got my Makita, and "they" served me well. My only complaint is that I burned them out like crazy.



Seems to me like the vehicle is already in awesome shape. The pics look really good. Best to work on maintaining that awesome finish for the time being, and worrying about the paint correction aspect of it later, when you actually have paint to correct.



There are numerous products on here that can protect and enhance the finish on your vehicle. You just have to find a system that fits into your budget and gives you the look you are looking for.



My personal favorites include, Zaino, if your looking for a sealer system, and P21s if you are looking for a Nuba wax. (I didn't care too much for Collinite for example)



Good Luck,



Dan

 

[btmlinedan]

My personal favorites include, Zaino, if your looking for a sealer system, and P21s if you are looking for a Nuba wax. (I didn't care too much for Collinite for example)



Good Luck,



Dan

Thanks Dan-

My problem is that I don't know what I want! I don't know the difference between a sealer and a wax, a polish and a glaze...hence why i'm on this site.



The paint doesn't need to be 'corrected' just 'helped out a bit. I need to place an order here soon, im' getting the itchy trigger finger, just wanna order everything at once from one place. Heard good things about the fk1000p but can you buy that through anywhere other than finish kare?



Dan-

are you recommending something like this?

 

[Danspeed1]

These are two different approaches, to achieving the same goal. The Impala was done with a sealer system (Zaino) and the Corvette Was done with a Carnuba Wax (Collinite 845).



The Impala was one of my earlier details... before I was aware of the proper detailing lingo. So try and focus more on the product line I used, and also take a look at the picture of the polisher I was using. I got by with those polishers for a good 5-6 years. I have detailed cars for years, but the results were poor at best. The type of results you would get if you brought your car to the local car wash and had those guys detail it. My cars always looked glossy, shined like crazy, but were covered in swirls. Something about them always bothered me. Whats amazing is once you catch the bug, your never quite satisfied with what your using and you always seem to want to spend more and work harder at achieving the perfect finish. Whats astounding is what most people who didn't catch the bug actually miss. Some of my friends think wiping a coat of NuFinish on the car looks just as good as all the work I put into my vehicles. Anyway, enough rambling, take a look



http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-de...-im-believer-zaino-pictures-gm-nationals.html







The Corvette was done with a Makita. I could have done that with the sears, but it would have taken days longer. Again, focus on the products.



http://www.autopia.org/forum/click-brag/106056-another-c4-corvette-brought-back-near-death.html



Accumulator is sure to chime in and clarify what I am about to explain using the "proper" detailing lingo, but I just want to point you in the right direction in the meantime.



Sealers Systems are Synthetic based systems. Most provide excellent durability. Some are easier to use than others, none of them are easier than using a carnuba based wax IN MY OPINION. As long as you remove any of the correction/compounding components by wiping the car down with alcohol, or washing it with dawn, prior to laying down a sealer, you can use any sealer system you like. Some sealers can be top coated with a Carnuba wax, but once you do that, you can't go back and apply more sealer. The big difference between a sealer and wax is that sealers tend to give the car a mirror finish; they make the car look as though it is encased in glass.



Carnuba Systems like Collinite 845, or P21s also include some synthetic components, but pride themselves on being carnuba wax based. They are more "natural" then sealers. People on this forum love to debate which is more durable, sealers or nuba. I think the current general consensus is that "beauty" waxes like P21s are no where near as durable as sealers, and need constant reapplication; but I have found hard waxes like Collinite 476s to be extremely durable, much more so than any sealer I have used, and almost detergent proof, as my car has 1 coat of it on right now, and its been in salt for 3 months with no failure. The reason many people prefer Carnuba waxes is because they are easier to apply and remove, and they give the vehicle a warm, wet, glow which is missing from many of the sealer systems.



Glazes are intended to add gloss, wetness, and lightly fill minor imperfections for a short period of time. Example, you are going to a car show... you just quick detailed your vehicle but its just not popping the way you'd like and you noticed some like micro-marring and micro-swirls. A coat of glaze is like make up, it covers up all that, and gives the car a deep, wet look. I have used Red Moose Machine Glaze, and honestly was not overly impressed with the look, and there was absolutely no life on it. It rained shortly after I put it on, and it was gone. Swirls were back and gloss was gone. For what your looking to achieve, you will not need to look towards glazes.



Polishes are hard for me to describe. Seems like everybody has a different definition. I like to call anything that corrects a finish (Like Megs Swirl Free Polish, 4Star Swirl Mark Remover, Menzerna IP or 106FF), a correction creme or compound. I reserve the word polish for products that do little or no correction and just provide gloss and improve the optical clarity. For Example, IN MY OPINION Zaino Z2 and Z5 are both "polish's." Zaino ZPC is a correction creme, or compound.





I am not familiar with the paint on your vehicle. Appears to be a hard clear to me, if you just finished claying it and it looks as good as it did before you started. A soft finish would mar and haze.

I would recommend either Menzerna or Meguiars for Paint Correction, as those have been very easy for me to use and I have had good initial results, even with my sears unit. And I would recommend either P21s if the car is stored inside, or Collinite 476s topped with P21s if the car is stored outside.



Wait for the others to chime in,.... hopefully they will be able to help clarify some of this as I know I may not been clear.



Dan

 

[Danspeed1]

Just realized there is no picture of the tool I used....



Sorry,...

DG

 

[btmlinedan]

^^ that has been the most helpful thing i've read on this entire board.



That should definitely be in the archive, haha.



Can I layer sealers and waxes? Should I polish, THEN SEAL, then wax? I've heard good things about the Klasse AIO, but didn't know If i should use that (w/ a sears type ....fOR NOW!) then go over w/ fk-1000p or a different wax?



Can I try a one step product, or are they just crap? I understand hand polishing / sears isn't going to be AS good...but didn't you do the impala with a sears type deal?



Thanks again for all the help, and sorry if i sound like I keep repeating myself, just wanna make sure I get the right information and the good products!

 

[Danspeed1]

You can layer sealants

You can layer Waxes (although there has been evidence lately that shows layering the same wax doesn't do anything; I still layer anyway)

You can put a wax on top of some sealers

Most sealers will NOT bond to a waxed surface, thus you can not layer a sealer on a wax



The process should go...

Wash-->Clay-->Wash-->Correct/Compound/Polish--->Wipedown--->Seal/Wax--->Quick Detail (if necessary)



To this day I have never used a AIO. I have so many other things I want to spend my $$ on I haven't had the opportunity to try any of the AIO's. I may be under the misconception that AIO will not do much for my vehicles (especially if they are swirled) because all three of my cars have extremely hard clear coats. I prefer just to compound/correct/polish my vehicles... and then look to protect and prolong the finish using the "proper washing procedure," quick detailer, and reapplication of polishes (like Z2 and Z5 if I am using a sealer system on the car), or reapplication of wax, if I am using P21s or any of the others I have in my arsenal.



I would wait for the others to chime in on the one step products question. Although, judging by the pictures you posed (it would be nice to see some close-ups too) you more than likely need very little correction to have a perfect finish, I see no reason why you personally could not get away with an AIO.



AIO's are not crap, they have their place.



I DID DO THE IMPALA SS WITH THE SEARS... THAT ENTIRE BOAT WAS DONE WITH THE SEARS. The paint was in need of some TLC but it wasn't horrid. The paint on the Vette was done with many passes of the Makita, the paint was absolutely, beyond belief horrible. If you saw the vehicle in person you would agree the only way to save it would be a repaint, but somehow I manged to bring it back to life. That first thread you saw, even though the car looked great, was only the beginning if you could believe it. I got it 100X better than it was, and I still wasn't happy, so I stripped all the wax off and went over it again at a later date.



This is detail number 2... (I never did a write up on the second one)

If you could imagine the paint looked almost perfect after the second shot around the block.... that's another 40 hours into the car on top of the original detail. It looked even better when it was completed, the pictures above were from a couple days later in Lake George, NY.



I am glad I can come on here and help someone out. I asked many more questions than you did when I first joined. If its one thing that I noticed is appreciated on here, its someones eagerness to learn.



Keep um com'in.....



Dan

 

[Dsoto87]

I would like to comment on the remark made about no sealants being easier to apply than a carnaua wax. I don't know which sealants the person has used but I actually much prefer to use a WOWO (wipe on, wipe off) sealent than applying a wax. You can seal an entire car with two coats for proper coverage in a fraction of the time it would take to apply a wax. Optiseal acrylic/carnuaba jett trigger, and ultima paint guard are excellent examples. The only way it would get easier than those is if the sealant jumped out the bottle and applied itself.



Some sealants do require more work such as KSG and some require more cure time such as Wolfgang DGPS, but please don't think that sealants are some complicated piece of technology. Optiseal and AJT have a 30 minute cure time which means you can layer multiple times in one day. I don't think carnauba waxes can be layered in the sense of one layer over another but more so I think doing 2 coats only ensures an even coat. Where as many sealants show considerable differences when layered.



Another thing I would like to speak on are AIOs. AIOs are great and have multiple uses.



- They are good for when you don't need to polish but want to start with a clean slate. (For instance, if you want to switch to a sealant from a carnauba)

_ They are great as "maintainence" polish. Prime strong and Poliseal have some correcting abilities while at the same time laying down some protection which can than be topped with whatever. The correcting abilities are not enough though where you would have to worry about clear coat failure even when used regularly.

- KAIO works great on chrome and I've even have read of people using it on theur glass since it has excellent cleaning abilities.



You won't use much so if your only doing you car, investing $15-$30 in a quality one will last you a good amount of time.



As for glazes, the one glaze that I think should be in everyones arsenal is Danase Wet Glaze. This is the only product that I've used so for that has just floored me from its ease of use and the looks/slickness it brings out. I wish they sold this stuff in gallons.



If this is for your own vehicle get the pc. It will make things so much easier. There great kits out there for between 130-200. To be honest though, if I could go back, I would just invest in the flex. That's not take away from the pc though.

 

[Danspeed1]

I would like to comment on the remark made about no sealants being easier to apply than a carnaua wax. I don't know which sealants the person has used but I actually much prefer to use a WOWO (wipe on, wipe off) sealent than applying a wax. You can seal an entire car with two coats for proper coverage in a fraction of the time it would take to apply a wax. Optiseal acrylic/carnuaba jett trigger, and ultima paint guard are excellent examples. The only way it would get easier than those is if the sealant jumped out the bottle and applied itself.

.............

Sealers Systems are Synthetic based systems. Most provide excellent durability. Some are easier to use than others, none of them are easier than using a carnuba based wax IN MY OPINION.

DG