Need some help...really having trouble getting swirls out...

[Ben Carufel]

I'm really having some trouble with swirls...and I'm sure it's something in my equipment/technique, but I can't for the life of me figure out what. Any help would be appreciated. Here's an example:



This weekend I helped a friend out by detailing his 1996 M3 for him. The car has always been garage kept and he had the hood and bumper replaced about two months ago (and repainted) due to accident and stone chip damage.



The whole car was covered with some moderate swirl marks, and the hood was even worse. It had very noticeable swirl marks and spiderwebbing -- the paint shop obviously did a detail after they painted it, and didn't do a good job.



I set to work with my PC and CMA pads. I used a CMA Yellow pad with 3M SMR for 85% of the paint. It removed maybe 70% of the moderate swirls. I used the same combo for another pass with no better results -- I could only get 70% of the moderate swirls out.



I then set to work on the hood. I used 3M Finesse-It Fine Cut Rubbing Compound and a CMA Yellow pad on the hood, which has had 60 days to cure. I followed it up with 3M Finesse-It Machine Polish and a CMA white pad. This combination removed 90% of the light swirls, but the spiderwebbing and moderate and heavy swirls are still there.



What's going on? Shouldn't 3M FC RC and FI-II MP take out 99.9% of the swirls on the car? How can I possibly get more agressive than that without going to a wool pad?



So my question is, how do I remove these heavy swirls? I dont want to fill them with anything, I want them gone. I've been planning to give my father's 1992 735iL a good detail in the near future, and it's black and has two years of serious swirl marks. That will be my test bed for any new techniques.



I'd appreciate *any* advice on how to improve my swirl remval skills.



For what it's worth I'm buffing with JT International blue microfibers.

 

[2wheelsx2]

Is the CMA yellow pad the "cutting" pad? I think the colours work the same as the Meguiar's pads, right? If so, you can go to the maroon cutting pad, which is still a foam pad. The most aggressive one before going to a wool pad.



If that doesn't work, IMO, you're better going to a rotary than using a wool pad on a DA polisher.

 

[airjames]

I'm not real familar with 3M's line of stuff but if it were me this is what I would do.



I am more familar and use Meguiars professional and body shop products. This is what I would do. DACP- #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish with a W-8006 foam polishing pad with a PC, see how that works. If that doesn't get all the swirls out, I would switch to a W-7006 pad. Just my $.02,,,,,,,91

 

[Ben Carufel]

Is the CMA yellow pad the "cutting" pad? I think the colours work the same as the Meguiar's pads, right? If so, you can go to the maroon cutting pad, which is still a foam pad. The most aggressive one before going to a wool pad.



If that doesn't work, IMO, you're better going to a rotary than using a wool pad on a DA polisher.

Yep, yellow is the "cutting" pad. I remembered when I ordered the pads a little over a year ago that there was one more level of foam pad above the yellow. I just doublechecked CMA's website and it's the orange pad. I'll order up a couple and give them a shot.



I agree that I'd rather go to a Rotary than use a wool pad on the paint.

 

[Ben Carufel]

I'm not real familar with 3M's line of stuff but if it were me this is what I would do.



I am more familar and use Meguiars professional and body shop products. This is what I would do. DACP- #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish with a W-8006 foam polishing pad with a PC, see how that works. If that doesn't get all the swirls out, I would switch to a W-7006 pad. Just my $.02,,,,,,,91

I've heard a lot of good stuff about DACP. I really wonder if it's more abrasive or better at removing serious swirls than 3M Finesse-It II Rubbing Compound...the FI-II RC seems like pretty serious stuff.



I've been giving some thought to switching to Meguiar's though. We'll see I guess.

 

[shaf]

As far as I know, DACP is almost as strong as or a bit less strong as a fine cut RC. It wouldn't be a step up IMHO.



Are you sure that the orange pad is even stronger than their yellow pad? As I understand it, and I've tried my own orange pad once, it is actually a pad that lies somewhere in between the yellow and white (polishing) pads because it leaves a fine finish.

 

[AMP01]

Ben,



When I had my jet black 1999 740iL, I finally got all my swirls out of the paint using my PC and DACP and a wool pad. I would start on #4 and then finish on #6. I then went to DACP and cutting pad. Then I went to VM or SEPC/GEPC with a polishing pad. No more swirls and shiny, shiny paint.



Here is a example of how the paint looked after it was buffed out.

Cheers,

 

[Ben Carufel]

As far as I know, DACP is almost as strong as or a bit less strong as a fine cut RC. It wouldn't be a step up IMHO.



Are you sure that the orange pad is even stronger than their yellow pad? As I understand it, and I've tried my own orange pad once, it is actually a pad that lies somewhere in between the yellow and white (polishing) pads because it leaves a fine finish.

That's pretty much what I thought about DACP.



I seemed to get, from the text on CMA's website, that the orange pad is more agressive than the yellow pad yet leaves a fine finish like the white pad...

 

[Ben Carufel]

Ben,



When I had my jet black 1999 740iL, I finally got all my swirls out of the paint using my PC and DACP and a wool pad. I would start on #4 and then finish on #6. I then went to DACP and cutting pad. Then I went to VM or SEPC/GEPC with a polishing pad. No more swirls and shiny, shiny paint.



Here is a example of how the paint looked after it was buffed out.



Cheers,

WHAAAT? You sold it? What'd you get? Another Bimmer I hope? That car was *clean*. Did you sell it to a guy in San Diego by chance?



Anyhow, which wool pad did you use? How hard was it to do? Did you have to stop and let the pad cool every now and then? I have no idea how to use a wool pad...please educate me!



That's pretty much how I'd like pops' 735il to look ...except his is an E32 of course...

 

[Accumulator]

Ben Carufel- You're running into a sorta common problem- trying to do ROTARY-level work with a PC. Sometimes things work out fine, as they did for AMP01, but you really gotta be careful. Sometimes you can damage/cut through the clear before you remove the marring. Rotaries really DO work differently, and really ARE the tool for major paint correction. But anyhow...



3m makes plenty of good compounds/polishes. I've used their RCs with wool pads without problems. The wool pads are REALLY only a bit more aggressive than the foam cutting pads when used with a PC. Using them WET will make them a bit MORE aggressive.



I haven't used the FI line for so long I hesitate to comment on it. I currently use the PI-II/III stuff. I can get an ALMOST ready-to-wax finish with the PI-III RC (pn 05933) with a polishing pad.



I really get nervous recommending harsh methods by PC (see first paragraph, above), but I guess *I* might try:



Your current RC with a wool pad, then

The 05933 with a cutting pad, then

Same thing (OR your FI-II MP) with a POLISHING pad, then

The SMR, then wax.



Be careful on the bumper, repainted plastic parts have more delicate paint than METAL parts like the hood. In general, be willing to leave some imperfections rather than thin the clear too much.



Oh, [Accumulator's standard broken record:] consider switching to 1Z polishes, they are SOOOO easy to use!

 

[AMP01]

Ben,



The wool pad I used came from CMA.



Porter Cable Pads - Including a Wool Leveling Pad

I practiced on a friends beater car first. I found out that with a PC, as long as you have some paint to work with, that a lambs wool pad is fairly safe to use. Again, I would practice on a friends car first!



Yes I did sell my former '99 jet black 740iL. I did however purchase a newer Bimmer - a Titanium Silver with Gray Leather 2001 740i Sport with all options except for part distance control. Here is a pic of my latest Bimmer.

Long live Bimmers! :bow :xyxthumbs



Cheers,