Need body work - blended clearcoat ok?

rockford33

rockford33

New member
So, I have some rust on my 6 year old Subaru. Took it to one shop and they said they would sand off the rust, spray on some rustproofing, re-paint the area, and then re-clear the entire rear quarter panel (rusting area), roof, and the rear quarter since there are no body seams to limit the re-clear (all for $1000). They also suggested skipping the work and looking for a new car this spring since they couldn't guarantee how long it wold look nice or that the rust wouldn't come back.

So I took it to another shop for a second opinion. This shop wouldcut out the rusted area, patch in another panel, rustproof, re-paint, and then re-clear, blending the new clear into the existing clear (all for $900).

Did some research on clear blending, and it seems it can be done, but you can also still get a line where the new and old clear meet if not done correctly. While I would prefer new clear from seam to seam, it would also cost more. But since I plan on keeping the car for awhile (only 83k miles, so I plan to keep for another 3-4 years), I am not sure if requesting all new clear would be worth the extra cost, or if belnding is a viable option.

Anyone everyone had there clear blended, or has experence with this? What would be the correct way (if there is one), and is blending the clear just cutting corners? I am actually going to go to a 3rd shop and see what they say just so I have a good range of possibilities.

Thanks,
Neil
 
IMO I always suggest clearing the whole panel. Especially if you plan on keeping it for a while. If you plan on polishing the car on occasion the blend will appear.
Blends are hidden with glaze. The problem lies with how far the clear is sprayed past the basecoat. If you "chase" the blend during polishing and hit basecoat the line will never hide without re-spraying.
 
That is what I was thinking and wondering. The first place (that would re-clear the whole panel) didn't seem too willing to do the work because of the rust. The second place said no problem, we can do it. I think, given that I would like to keep the car for another few years, that I may ask the second place to re-clear the whole panel and just pay the extra to have it done.

Kind of makes me nervous though if the second place was trying to cut corners in the clear by blending and I wonder how good their work is. My wife has known a couple of people from her work who had their cars done there, so that is why I checked them out. But I am sure those people are not nearly as anal about their cars as I am!

Thanks,
Neil
 
Concours.John said:
IMO I always suggest clearing the whole panel. Especially if you plan on keeping it for a while. If you plan on polishing the car on occasion the blend will appear.
Blends are hidden with glaze. The problem lies with how far the clear is sprayed past the basecoat. If you "chase" the blend during polishing and hit basecoat the line will never hide without re-spraying.
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Agreed. It doesn't take that much extra effort to prep and clear a whole panel, so you might as well do it.
 
I had a feeling you like to keep it nice and that is why I suggested clearing the whole panel.
Some shops are not trying to half do a job they just pick the cheapest option to get your business. 900 dollars to cut, weld, finish and paint is very cheap.
The new metal is very thin and patching always requires more finish work.
Rust is a very hard thing to guarantee on newer cars. Some years are more prone than others.
 
Concours.John said:
I had a feeling you like to keep it nice and that is why I suggested clearing the whole panel.
Some shops are not trying to half do a job they just pick the cheapest option to get your business. 900 dollars to cut, weld, finish and paint is very cheap.
The new metal is very thin and patching always requires more finish work.
Rust is a very hard thing to guarantee on newer cars. Some years are more prone than others.
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I do like to keep it clean, but available time sometimes prevents me from keeping it as clean as I like :(

I love the body style of my car, and since I have fairly low mileage for an almost 7 year old car, I still plan on keeping it for a few years (or until I find another car that I like that I can afford comes around ;)). I think I will see how much more it would be to reclear the whole panel. As you said, I am sure they were doing the cheapest, "good enough for most people" option to get the business in the door.

-Neil
 
JaredPointer said:
For $100 difference in price, I'd definitely go the route of having it fixed and repainted seam-to-seam.
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Unfortunately, the first place that would clear seam to seam was not willing to put in a patch panel, only grind off the rust and repaint. He literally told me if it was his car, he wouldn't get it fixed and would look for a new car this spring.

I would prefer to have the rust cut out and a patch panel put in, then re-cleared seam to seam. But the rust is in a bad place, bottom of the rear quarter panel by the rear driver's side door, with a few curves and body lines in it. I think the first shop said there were no patch panels, so I imagine the second shop was going to purchase a whole rear quarter, cut a piece off to match what they cut out, and then weld it in. It would be way too expensive to replace the whole rear quarter since it is welded at the top of the C pillar, so to get good access a good portion of the interior would have to be removed (according to the 1st shop) and a good deal more re-painting would need to be done.

-Neil
 
I also just sent an email to Subaru Corporate to see what they would do. The car is 6-1/2 years old, and the rust warranty is for 5 years :wall

But in my opinion, this is unacceptable and a manufacturing or material defect (especially since they justify the 5 year warranty on the fact that they use double layer galvanized steel).

We will see if I get anywhere with them. I requested a meeting with a regional manager, bypassing the dealership altogether. I figured it is worth a try to see if they will fix it or even meet me halfway.

-Neil
 
I'm not sure on what subaru you have, but on some of those cars they dont have a good break point to stop the paint/clear. Sometimes they have to make a foam tape edge or make a loop and blend off the clear otherwise, ( depending on make and model of car), you will have to go up and over the roof to the next qaurter panel wich is more costly.
 
jjpcali4life said:
I'm not sure on what subaru you have, but on some of those cars they dont have a good break point to stop the paint/clear. Sometimes they have to make a foam tape edge or make a loop and blend off the clear otherwise, ( depending on make and model of car), you will have to go up and over the roof to the next qaurter panel wich is more costly.
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It is a 2005 Legacy GT. To get out to all of the edges, both rear quarter panels, roof, and A pillars would have to be re-cleared.

-Neil
 
Thats what i thought. By the look of most pictures i can find of the car they would break the blend off by the top of the back glass before the roof. Normaly they use a product called blender, it kinda melts the new and old clear together, but if you polish your car with a machine it can bring the blend back. Going up and over to the other qaurter would normaly include them ropping the front and back glass and a little extra prep work and taping. There shouldn't be anymore tare down time because they should be removing the bumper to do the repair. If not they are doing whats called dropping the bumber where they loosen it up on one side.
 
I forgot, they may charge to remove 1 more tale light wich should only be like .3 hrs nothing too crazy. They may do things a little different where you are from. I live in cali and we have a government agency called the BAR, who regulate how a car can be repaired.
 
One other thing I forgot to mention. The first shop (which didn't seem to want to do the work) stated that "welding in a patch panel will have its own set of issues". He didn't explain it any further, so I am not sure what issues there could be? Maybe just the fabrication (given the body curves), metalwork, welding, and grinding of the weld? Could it cause any other issues, or is it just more work to get it right? I believe, since Subaru uses galvanized steel, that the patch panel would also have to be galvanized and (I think I read this somewhere) that welding galvanized steel takes off the galvanizing. Not sure how you would "re-galvanize" it after welding since you couldn't access all around the piece.

-Neil
 
Well, im not sure where the rust is exactly, so its hard to say where they may make the section at. But, proper process of corrosion protection after welding would be, using a weld through primer first, then after welding and grinding they would use bondo and coat any bare metal with a etch primer. If any areas are welded that are hard to access from behind then they should use a cavity wax that is sprayed from an access hole and it will help restore corrosion protection as well, this is all ontop of priming, sealing and painting. I think i got everything, but if i remeber something ill post, feel free to ask specific questions that may allow me to pinpoint the exact process you need to know about. Again, if you dont have a regulating agency for autobody and mechanic work they may not repair it to the best that it can be.
 
http://www.detailcity.org/forums/ca...ifications/29593-minor-rust-paint-repair.html

Hope the link works. Scroll to post #9 and I had posted a couple of pictures of the rusted area. It is right where the rear fender lip rolls forward and meets the body seam to a small filler piece above the side skirt (just behind the rear passenger door). Has a few curves/lines that probably could not be fabbed easily, but would require a quarter panel to get the patch piece from.

Thanks,
Neil
 
I dont see a link. Sometimes they make a " dogleg section" wich is where the qaurter thins as it heads to the rocker panel. Each car manufacturers parts can be a little different. Now sectioning a qaurter panel is normaly done down at the dog leg and heading up the qaurter by the back glass. If they are needing to section in the panel itself it shouldnt be too hard to do if there isnt any damage to the body lines and its a good technition doing the work. At the shop i work we normaly dont deal with a lot of rust repair on newer cars since im on the west coast, so i havent seen it done like that. Hopefully ive been some help.
 
You have been a lot of help in my understanding of the process.

Click on the top piece of text "Minor rust repair...". should take you to moy older post.

Thanks,
Neil
 
jjpcali4life said:
I dont see a link. Sometimes they make a " dogleg section" wich is where the qaurter thins as it heads to the rocker panel. Each car manufacturers parts can be a little different. Now sectioning a qaurter panel is normaly done down at the dog leg and heading up the qaurter by the back glass. If they are needing to section in the panel itself it shouldnt be too hard to do if there isnt any damage to the body lines and its a good technition doing the work. At the shop i work we normaly dont deal with a lot of rust repair on newer cars since im on the west coast, so i havent seen it done like that. Hopefully ive been some help.
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I think it is a "dogleg" since it thins down to about 2 or 3 inches wide down at the side skirt.

-Neil
 
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