My restored M1 Garand. Pics

[Spilchy]

IMO it's just a matter of the game not accurately reflecting reality. The US .30-06 and the German 7.92 are so ballistically similar that it's silly to say one is more/less effective than the other. IIRC, the insignificant advantage would actually go to the Garand's .30-06 which was eventally determined to be "overkill" and was toned down to be more like the Mauser's 7.62 with the result being the 7.62/.308 NATO round used in the M14.

Interesting because I get the same thing when I use the German Gewehr 43 and even the MP40 whose accuracy seems suspect. Same applies to the US "Grease Gun." It takes 2 or 3 shots.



But with the US Browning Automatic Rifle (a bit slow, lumbering and cumbersome) and German MP44 (my favorite weapon), those suckers take one shot like the Mauser Karabiner 98k and Springfield M1903A4. That Browning is no joke! The Thompson (another gun in the game) is a fun, lightweight gun to use. That thing sprays some serious lead!



The game is fairly realistic. It even accounts for where you hit the enemy as to determine whether he dies with one shot. I seemed to have failed to mention that when discussing the leathality of the Garand with one shot. Hehehe, if you hit him in the helmet, it flies off and he turns around with a stunned look on his face and goes back to firing at you. That happens to me when I use the sniper rifles sometimes when I go for a head shot. I prefer the cross hair sight on the Springfield sniper rifle compared to the German sniper rifle.



When I read the credits, they have all sorts of historians who acted as consultants during the creation of the game. After seeing the series Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan, this game is very similar.



You can watch a trailer of it here: http://www.callofduty.com/ Click on "Enter Call of Duty 2 Available Now" on the right hand side. The trailer plays on its own.



For what its worth, I think the Soviet weaponry is the best to play with. I really like the PPS-43 (the best submachine gun) and the PPSh-41. I don't like the British weapons except the Lee-Enfield. The Bren is awful!

 

[Accumulator]

Spilchy- Interesting about how the different arms/calibers are rated. Again (and I'm not gonna thread-jack by going into detail), not very realistic. FWIW, I probably know a lot more about small arms of this era than I do about detailing

 

[GearHead_1]

The Thompson (another gun in the game) is a fun, lightweight gun to use. That thing sprays some serious lead!

Don't know anything about the game but in real life a Thompson is anything but light considering it's overall length. In fact it's surprisingly heavy. Many Thompson's had drum magazines that would hold up to 100 rounds of .45 ammo. Even the 30 round stick magazine isn't light. An M1 Carbine (.30)on the other hand is very light and doesn't have near the power of a M1 Garande (30.06). It makes me wonder if this isn't the gun being used in the game.



There were several weapons that carry the M1 designation. There's the M1 Garande, M1A .308, M1A1 Thompson and of course the M1 Abrams (not a gun in the stricktest sense). :wow:



By the way that's a beautiful Garande.

 

[GearHead_1]

The Thompson (another gun in the game) is a fun, lightweight gun to use. That thing sprays some serious lead!

Don't know anything about the game but in real life a Thompson is anything but light considering it's overall length. In fact it's surprisingly heavy. Many Thompson's had drum magazines that would hold up to 100 rounds of .45 ammo. Even the 30 round stick magazine isn't light.



By the way that's a beautiful Garande.

 

[imported_Intel486]

Spilchy, the game is doing it not to accurately represent history but to make the game play between the two sides even. If the US had a semi-auto rifle that had one shot kills 90% of the time, then who would want to play on the German side with their slow firing bolt-acion rifle?



GearHead_1, I agree. In real life the thompson is a heavy and somewhat uncomfortable weapon. They look cool... until you pick on up to shoot.



The M1 Carbine is a cool little rifle. I want to add one to my collection. It shot a pistol style caliber bullet and a lot of the soldiers who carried it didn't like it because it lacked the penetrating power of the 30-06. It was light weight though. It is a smaller carbine though compared to the M1 Garand with is a heavy main battle rifle.

 

[imported_Intel486]

IMO it's just a matter of the game not accurately reflecting reality. The US .30-06 and the German 7.92 are so ballistically similar that it's silly to say one is more/less effective than the other. IIRC, the insignificant advantage would actually go to the Garand's .30-06 which was eventally determined to be "overkill" and was toned down to be more like the Mauser's 7.62 with the result being the 7.62/.308 NATO round used in the M14.

The 30-06 was a pretty large round. I think the reason the 7.62 NATO was made was in an attempt to give soldiers a Main Battle Rifle that could be full-auto. A M1 Garand definately beats you around and doesn't have the fastest split times between shots.



For those that have never seen some of those calibers, here's a size comparison picture.

From left to right we have:

9mm

.44 Magnum

5.56mm (What the modern day M16, AR15, M4 shoots)

7.26 NATO (What the M14 shoots, M14 DMR, M24, M40A1, etc. .308 is a very accurate round)

25-06 REM

7mm Magnum

30-06 (M1 Garand, Springfield 1903, BAR, M1919)

 

[Accumulator]

Intel486- That's a good line up to give people and idea of what we're talking about. I'm always surprised at how big a 7mm mag is. I see the en-bloc clip for the M1 in the background...



Yeah, the big old stuff like the 7.92 and the .30-06 were really more suited to an older style of warfare with longer ranges. WWII pretty put an end to that sort of caliber as a standard infantry round.



That's a good point about how nobody would want to be the Germans if the game accurately depicted the tactical disadvantage of having a bolt-action gun in a semi/full-automatic war.



And yeah, the M1 Carbine is a sweetie to shoot. Note that despite its low power it was the favorite of Audie Murphy, who did just fine with it.



Other trivia:



That MP44, which I think is a really cool piece, is the grandaddy of the AK-47, and the MP44's short version of the 7.92 became the 7.92x39 that the AK, SKS,and countless other such guns use.

 

[Mr.Concours]

Intel486-

That MP44, which I think is a really cool piece, is the grandaddy of the AK-47, and the MP44's short version of the 7.92 became the 7.92x39 that the AK, SKS,and countless other such guns use.

The Sturm Gewbweher was the Father of the AK47, comrade Kalashnikov basicly copied and improved the design (read ripped off) from captured German rifles,it was the first real assault rifle in the modern sense of the word,but to few to late were introduced into the second world war to make any difference to the outcome.



Cant remember the caliber of the rifle but think it was pretty close to 5.56.

 

[GearHead_1]

Cant remember the caliber of the rifle but think it was pretty close to 5.56.

The AK 47's caliber is: 7.62 X 39. There were some variants of the AK 47 designated the AK 74, its caliber is 5.45 X 39.

 

[Accumulator]

Mr. Concours- Heh heh, but of course to hear Comrade Kalashnikov tell it he came up with the design all on his own and the similarities are purely coincidental



Heh heh#2, note that the now-pejorative "assault rifle" came from the German "sturm-G" designation for the MP44...

Cant remember the caliber of the rifle but think it was pretty close to 5.56.

If you meant what caliber the MP44 was, it was a radically shortened version of the 8mm Mauser round, even shorter, IIRC than the 7.62x39 with a different angle to the case's shoulder. The early evaluations of the whole system are interesting to read, the sharper pencils in the box realized that there'd been a sea-change in the world of the infantry rifle and that this was the new paradigm.

 

[Mr.Concours]

Mr. Concours- Heh heh, but of course to hear Comrade Kalashnikov tell it he came up with the design all on his own and the similarities are purely coincidental



Heh heh#2, note that the now-pejorative "assault rifle" came from the German "sturm-G" designation for the MP44...







If you meant what caliber the MP44 was, it was a radically shortened version of the 8mm Mauser round, even shorter, IIRC than the 7.62x39 with a different angle to the case's shoulder. The early evaluations of the whole system are interesting to read, the sharper pencils in the box realized that there'd been a sea-change in the world of the infantry rifle and that this was the new paradigm.

Accumulator,I was getting confused with the MP40 submachine gun (often wrongly called a schmeshmisher 'thats how its sounds not sure how its spelt'!)as always I bow to your superior product knowledge! :bow

 

[Accumulator]

Mr Concours- Heh heh, well, I know more about *these* products than I do about all the detailing products out there these days



The MP38/40/41(now there's a rare one for you) all took the standard 9mm, but function best with the hot "machine pistol" load.



I just realized that in a few cases I typed "7.62" for the WWII German round instead of "7.92 Off to edit....

 

[Prometheus]

That is an awesome looking M1. My dad has an original army issue m1 carbine, and every time we shoot it I have this sense of awe about it, what it's been through that I will never know. I always wanted an M1, hopefully some day I will get one as nice as yours.



Little OT, my father also has an SKS that soots the 7.62x39 ammo, and it is significatly weaker than that 30-06. To me, the x39 round is very similar to the 30 carbine round that the m1 carbine shoots. Definately a fun piece to shoot though. I always wanted to shoot a russian or german 7.62x54 rifle, that seemed like it would be a lot of fun, but I haven't yet had the chance. I almost picked up a russian infantry model awhile ago, and I'm kind of kicking myself for not doing it. Glad I didn't pass on the .45 though