My Flex XC 3401 VRG review

frostydog said:
hopefully soon some others, like Zoran C ;) (kidding buddy, I understand all you have going on right now)...will start to use the Flex and we can do some compare & contrast.
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Yes, helping my g/f is right now only thing I care about. She and I have worked hard on it practically every single available waking moment since last Friday (and yes, both she and I got very little sleep since we started). Good news is that it seems we have almost finished first part of it and we might be able to take break over the weekend. If we do (bad news is that I am on call over weekend and holiday and we have huge 'go live' scheduled for it) I hope to be there polishing because I need to finish this car and you can bet I am taking Flex and Ridgid to it.



frostydog said:
I don't want to come across as sounding like a Flex cheerleader :getdown
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I thought that is my role :chuckle: On the serious side, I don't think anybody can accuse me of that even if I end up madly in love with Flex. Just checkout other thread on 3401, another toy (in addition to Metabo is on it's way). :D
 
ZoranC said:
Good news is that it seems we have almost finished first part of it and we might be able to take break over the weekend.
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I should have bitten my tongue. As of yesterday company was telling me they need me to do work on Monday. As of now there are things that need to get done also Friday evening. And Friday night. And Friday after midnight. And Saturday morning. And Monday. :wall :grrr
 
I’ve logged a few more cars, polishes, hours and thoughts about the Flex…so I thought it was time for an update.



This weekend was the first I used the Flex with Menz 106 (wife's truck)...until this weekend I've been using FPII / IP, I'm more familiar with those polishes and I was still trying to get a feel for the Flex compared to PC. There's no doubt in my mind anymore...the Flex is quicker and capable of producing a better finish FOR ME. I’ve polished my car with a PC & FPII countless times…using the same pads and polish I was able to produce a noticeably better finish using the Flex. I’m certain others can produce a better finish via PC than I, but with my consistent understanding and skill level…I was able to produce an improved finish with the Flex over the PC.



I’ve been looking forward to trying the 106 with the Flex. I used a white pad and ran the Flex on about 4.5 (max speed 6.0). More recently I started running a slightly slower speed, I decreased from ~5.25 to ~4.5. I know it sounds like a small decrease, but it’s actually a noticeable change with the feel of the polisher in my hands, also the effort needed to control it. It’s not like running the Flex at levels of 5 and 6 is hard, far from it actually. You certainly need to hold on a little tighter, move a little faster and pay a little more attention, but it is workable at higher speeds. I found a very comfortable pattern using the Flex at speed 4.5, which I thought was producing equal results and just felt best to me. I did start moving the polisher slower during the first 2 passes, then would go over a couple more times with faster passes. Those first two slower passes would do a lot; usually the polish would start dusting shortly after I started the fast passes. For me running on speed 4.5 also made it easier to keep a firm, constant pressure on the polisher...its nice being able to push down firmly with zero bog.



The 106 did in fact (as most will say) produce a brilliant finish. It was a great polish to work with…it broke down nicely, only dusted slightly; although I was expecting a little more correcting ability from it. It’s not like I was expecting a lot of correction, I’m sure a Green or Orange pad would do more, but I was expecting just a little more. Don’t ask me why…



I also realized I need more time to “tinkerâ€� with the 106 and Flex. Different pads, different speeds, etc… One thing for sure is the Flex can produce heat and from what I’ve read that is a large variable in producing the “wowâ€� 106 finish.



It hasn’t been a one-sided love affair…if anything I have a new appreciation for my PC. I like switching to my PC after I polish with the Flex, for some stupid reason I just find it nice to switch machines. IMO the PC is still the tool for AIOs/LSPs/Glazes. The ability to feather the PC around the car with one hand is invaluable to me for applying AIOs/LSPs/Glazes.



Here are a few pics of the wife’s truck.

Forgive the gobs of untreated plastic this thing has on it.:grrr



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X1.jpg




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Hey, Frostydog, that looks nice and tight. I don't have the Menz 106ff polish yet, but looks like I'll be adding it to the arsenal down the line. Currently working through a 32 oz. of Micro Polish. As you stated in my post in Car Detailing, I think you and I are starting to come to a lot of the same conclusions on this thing. The key being is that it does allow you to work quicker than a PC, but still provides a reasonable safety net. I did one hand the beast a few times when applying some Menz FMJ this afternoon. I know we agreed that still using PC would be best for LSP, but, I just had to use the new toy!!! I was also spreading the FMJ on about a 1.5 speed. PC would defintiely be better for LSP. As you stated, being able to just feather that baby around is really nice. I was applying some FMJ on the top part of the bottom bumper and the backing plate tapped into one of the tail lights. No damage, but the PC + Edge pads would be much safer.
 
DJ_JonnyV said:
Hey, Frostydog, that looks nice and tight. I don't have the Menz 106ff polish yet, but looks like I'll be adding it to the arsenal down the line. Currently working through a 32 oz. of Micro Polish. As you stated in my post in Car Detailing, I think you and I are starting to come to a lot of the same conclusions on this thing. The key being is that it does allow you to work quicker than a PC, but still provides a reasonable safety net. I did one hand the beast a few times when applying some Menz FMJ this afternoon. I know we agreed that still using PC would be best for LSP, but, I just had to use the new toy!!! I was also spreading the FMJ on about a 1.5 speed. PC would defintiely be better for LSP. As you stated, being able to just feather that baby around is really nice. I was applying some FMJ on the top part of the bottom bumper and the backing plate tapped into one of the tail lights. No damage, but the PC + Edge pads would be much safer.
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Thanks much!!!



Agree...def faster, better end results and still seemingly very safe to work with.



I'm starting to think the "risk" with the Flex isn't burning the paint...you'd have to be pretty careless for that to happen. I'm not even sure if it's possible, I wish I had access to an old beater that I could intentionally try to burn. But the Flex can produce heat, we both can attest to that…



I think the real risk is what happened to you…hitting something with the backing plate. If you’re using 6.5â€� pads there isn’t much pad “overhangâ€� from the BP for a buffer (hardly none). And the backing plate on this thing is hard, unlike the PC flexible type BP’s. Not too mention the power this thing has. I haven’t done it yet, but I can see making a paint nick if the BP hits something just right.



Also, regarding the Velcro backing on the Flex BP…you mentioned you see this being a problem. I have to say after hearing about the new Velcro I went home and took a pretty close look at mine. I tried lightly “pickingâ€� at it to see if I had any issues…and thus far it seems pretty secure to me.



May I ask what makes you think you’ll have issues??? Did you see something happening to your Velcro already??



I’m still going to call for the replacement…but I’m thinking even this orig red one will last quite a while. That’s perfect though, hopefully I’ll have two BP’s…which isn’t a bad thing.
 
Here's a pic of what I was referring to with the velcro pad section:



199088807-L.jpg




This happened within the first 10-15 minutes Friday night when I fired it up on my A6. Although it really hasn't gotten any worse since doing the Camry on Saturday.



Yeah, it will definitiely heat the paint up. I was really trying to work an area over on the Camry and went to feel it, and had to pull my hand away. Needless to say, I moved on and let that dog lie...
 
BTW, my new black velcro equipped bp just showed up at work. I'll try to swap them out this evening and post some pics. Might be tomorrow night though since I have to finish a home theater install this evening.
 
DJ_JonnyV said:
BTW, my new black velcro equipped bp just showed up at work. I'll try to swap them out this evening and post some pics. Might be tomorrow night though since I have to finish a home theater install this evening.
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Sweet!!! That was quick...



That's exactly what I was trying to see if I could do with my Velcro...thus far I've had no problems like you’re showing. That’s REAL good to know though and the picture shows exactly what I’m presuming Flex said may happen. Hence why they are changing the Velcro.
 
frostydog said:
I think the real risk is what happened to you…hitting something with the backing plate. If you’re using 6.5â€� pads there isn’t much pad “overhangâ€� from the BP for a buffer (hardly none). And the backing plate on this thing is hard, unlike the PC flexible type BP’s.
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Unfortunately, I have "proved" to myself and to the paint that edge of "flexible" bp on PC is just as dangerous. :( I don't know what I would be rather repairing, narrow clean nick from thin firm plate or wide spread paint rub from flexible bp.



So, I would say it is a risk of any tool of this kind and that we shouldn't be taking it against any tool in particular. 7.5+" pads for rotary are available with recessed design that shields paint from bp. Unfortunately I don't see that available in 6.5" ones.



What concerns me more is that thin non-flexible bp is more prone to risk of shattering when it contacts something. It raises importance of wearing eye protection and having spare bp or two.



frostydog said:
Also, regarding the Velcro backing on the Flex BP…you mentioned you see this being a problem. I have to say after hearing about the new Velcro I went home and took a pretty close look at mine. I tried lightly “pickingâ€� at it to see if I had any issues…and thus far it seems pretty secure to me.
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I haven't had Velcro separation of the extent DJ had, I had just surface becoming slightly "wavey" that went away when plate cooled down (I guess glue getting soft), but on the other hand I was not making anything as hot as DJ was, while surface was very warm I did not need to pull hand away like he did.



DJ, based on your descriptions (full speed, Power Gloss, metal so hot you have to pull hand away) you might be too aggressive with your paint. I am concerned about thickness of clear left behind.
 
ZoranC said:
DJ, based on your descriptions (full speed, Power Gloss, metal so hot you have to pull hand away) you might be too aggressive with your paint. I am concerned about thickness of clear left behind.
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Yeah, going forward from there, I did take it easier on sections where I was trying to get a tougher scratch out. I worked it a lot less and would just leave it go. That's about when the trigger goes off in your head, "hey, dumba$$, don't screw up the paint job...". You have to remember that the owner will be stoked evn if you don't get every scratch/blemish out. There's some that you just can't get.



On my red velcro, I noticed that it pulled away when i was switching pads at one point. I pulled one off and saw what is pictured above. It sure does start running pretty hot up in the head area.
 
So, I would say it is a risk of any tool of this kind and that we shouldn't be taking it against any tool in particular.
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very true...I to (as most I'm sure) have had a paint rub caused from the flexable PC BP's. I was also thinking of possibly cracking a mirror, lens, etc..with the hard BP, kind of like what almost happend to DJ.



In regards to the 7.5" pads...I've been giving them some thought. What are your thoughts about using the Flex (or any forced rotation RO for that matter) with 7.5 inch pads??



I started thinking about them not for added protection from the BP...but rather, the more I use the Flex the more I find myself lifting up one side of the pad (much like you would with a rotary) to get into tight or awkward spots, A Pillars, etc...



This is obviously somewhat hard to do with a 6.5 inch "flat" pad...but the 7.5 inch pads have that nice taper to allow for such an angle.



With the PC if it was a tight area that I HAD to get I would switch to the 4" pads, but without that option, I started angling the Flex with the 6.5" pad to get into tight spots.



Although I would still like to use the pad flat as well...are the 7.5" pads ok to use flat on the paint as you would a 6.5"?? I'm thinking probably not...
 
I know Zoran has a Cyclo and hasn't really had an opportunity to test out the Flex yet, but can any of you other guys comment on the performance of the Flex versus the Cyclo? If not, Zoran, I'd be interested in your observations concerning both machines.



Also, any thoughts on Flex versus Makita 6040?
 
I posted a question earlier "UDM vs Cyclo". Now I'm wondering if the question should be Flex vs Cyclo? (for those of us with a PC).
 
toml said:
I know Zoran has a Cyclo and hasn't really had an opportunity to test out the Flex yet, but can any of you other guys comment on the performance of the Flex versus the Cyclo? If not, Zoran, I'd be interested in your observations concerning both machines.



Also, any thoughts on Flex versus Makita 6040?
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cjbigcog said:
I posted a question earlier "UDM vs Cyclo". Now I'm wondering if the question should be Flex vs Cyclo? (for those of us with a PC).
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Sorry guys...I haven't used the Cyclo to be able to comment. However, IIRC I've read at least a couple threads comparing the PC to the Cyclo. By reading those reviews you may be able to draw a "dotted line" comparing the 3 polishers.



In my field of work (finance) there is a saying…â€�no one number in isolationâ€�. That is to say, there is no silver bullet. No magic percent, formula, ratio, etc…that tells/shows everything about a business’ performance. Each adds it’s own value…then there is the beautiful GRAY area. The gray area is where your own personal requirements, needs, wants, desires, etc…comes into play. Your “gut feelâ€�.



I’m going to coin a phrase for Autopians everywhere…



�no one product in isolation�



Sorry about getting off topic…



I remember reading a thread a while back about the Cyclo…IIRC the poster commented that the Cylco was modestly quicker than the PC, maybe produced a slightly better finish…but he said he just LOVED using the machine. He couldn’t wait to pick it up. To him the Cyclo was omnipotent; it was truly perfect. It had nothing to do with how it corrected or finished or its speed…to him it was all about the enjoyment he got from using it.



I guess where I’m going is...what’s best or should be compared is different for all.



With that said, as always…I’ll try my best to answer any questions about the Flex in an unbiased manner.
 
What has been your experience in using the Flex in small curved areas like bumpers? With the PC, I've been able to polish the upper part of the rear bumper using only part of the pad. With the Flex, I wonder if that would really be possible due to the forced rotation. Or do you just have to have firm hand pressure at that point?
 
Tomi - using the Flex for this should not be a problem as I just did it today on an Acura RL I detailed. From the way it sounds like you were using your PC, you would use the Flex the same way. I've been able to "feather" it in areas such as bumpers. Just be careful not to crack the backing plate against anything. Actually, in real tight areas I'll still use the PC and a 4" Edge 2k pad.
 
toml said:
What has been your experience in using the Flex in small curved areas like bumpers? With the PC, I've been able to polish the upper part of the rear bumper using only part of the pad. With the Flex, I wonder if that would really be possible due to the forced rotation. Or do you just have to have firm hand pressure at that point?
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It's definitely possibe, its just what you said...you just have to have a firm grip and be paying attention. If anything I polish more of my car with a 6.5" pad and the Flex than I would with a PC. With the PC I would "usually" change to a 4" pad to get tight or narrow areas. With the Flex you can work on just one side of the pad much better than you can with the PC; making it possible to get into tight areas.



The Flex def takes a firmer grip than a PC...but I never had it just shoot off on it's own or do anything crazy like that. It's kind of surprising when you first start using it because it pulls and feels very different than a PC. But that's about it...it feels different, in no way is it uncontrollable. For the most part you do need to use two hands and pay a little more attention, but really very little more than what's required to operate a PC. The more I use it the less "wild" it feels.
 
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