Multiple coats of VMW - a waste of time?

A

AndyC

New member
Exactly as it asks. I've now got the paint on my garage queen almost to a point I'm happy with and decided to try multiple coats of VMW.



I've done 2 so far - easy as anything using the PC at around #4 (takes about 5 minutes to apply and 5 to buff off) and a relaxing way to end a detailing session IMO.



My question is though am I wasting my time? The shine does appear to be getting glossier and deeper and wetter so I guess that might answer my question!



Anyone else done this and what do you think?
 
~ One man’s opinion / observations ~



Layering:

By applying more products on top of one that has already cross-linked you can increase its density (up to a point) The thin film of product that's applied isn't really another layer.



Each subsequent applications adherence process is that the solvents work their way into the microscopic gaps and valleys of the previous `layer' thereby creating an anchor, and by surface tension, when the paint film surface is level there is little benefit to adding more.



A level paint film surface improves the paint film surface's desired optical properties (i.e. surface reflectance, clarity, gloss, and depth of shine)



The purpose of applying a protective coating to automotive finishes is to act as a sacrificial barrier against industrial fallout (including acid rain) pollution, dust, dirt and road grime as well as bird excrement, then you can reapply another coating to replenish the wax that has eroded away.







~ Hope this helps ~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
 
WOW - kinda scientific but extremely helpful indeed! This was what I was thinking, albeit in a more basic way, in that a single layer, no matter how carefully applied, would likely have "gaps" and that a second or even third layer would fill these in, thus producing a more smooth, even result and as a result an improved appearance.
 
Vanilla Moose won't layer because it is a polish (that contains wax), but it will finely polish the paint each time. The improvement you are likely seeing is because the paint is at a higher polished state after each application.
 
Thanks Scott I'd figured that actual layering wasn't possible with VMW in the same way as a synthetic sealant etc.



Truth be told, the improvement with each application isn't breathtaking as such, just a slightly improved depth of shine & more gloss/wetness. I've decided to stop at 3 coats as I reckon it'll be a cse of dimishing returns after that and a waste of time and product.



Love the Speed Glaze though - used that before the VMW. Did a quick application of DACP, then Speed Glaze than VMW and very pleased with the results.



Pictures will follow as soon as my new digital software loaded onto my laptop.
 
Look into getting a pure carnauba wax if you want to layer. I would not in any case put too many layers on at one time. The reason for this is because more than three layers put on at one time is very difficult to settle right, and it will not last as long as a single coat of wax that has been stretched right and given time to dry.



I like to start with the clean and polish process at the beginning of my wax season, and start off with two coats of wax. I follow throughout the season with separate sessions of a coat of wax (two coats if I'm in the moment), all the while keeping the car as dry as possible and giving a good time for the wax coatings to settle and cure.



So far I have been happy with the results, and my carnauba wax resolution has hung in there much longer than many people otherwise would think a carnauba would last. You'd be surprised in how far just a little will actually go.....
 
FWIW, I tried multiple applications of VM (by PC) on my Jag's very soft ss lacquer. It was previously polished with numerous products and all oxidation/"dead paint" had been removed.



The first application of VM resulted in a fair amount of paint transfer to the pad and to the MFs that I used to remove the VM. Each subsequent application resulted in noticeably *less* transfer. As I proceeded, I tried to be less aggressive each time, using less pressure on the PC, for instance. The finish looked *a little* better each time, and by the last application I was not getting any discernable transfer. It *seemed* that after the first few applications I was only polishing the (previously applied) VM as opposed to polishing the paint.
 
The Chemist, said something about anything after the second layer is a waste. Seems right to me. Once you have a good foundation (2 layers) what can the product do to attach itself, you most likely end up just removing the layer you applied while buffing it out! Correct me if you think this thinking is wrong.
 
lpquick said:
The Chemist, said something about anything after the second layer is a waste. Seems right to me. Once you have a good foundation (2 layers) what can the product do to attach itself, you most likely end up just removing the layer you applied while buffing it out! Correct me if you think this thinking is wrong.
Click to expand...



This is a little different since VM has cleaners in it and will remove the previous layer. What additional applications of VM will do is continue to finely polish the paint. I would think though, once you have gone over the paint 3-4 times you would get to a point where additional applications won't improve the paint.



I do agree that with last step products, 2 layers is sufficient.
 
I am not sure whether that fact would apply to pure carnauba wax, but I am open into seeing a study of wax adherence.



There are visible resolution differences between 2, 5, 9, and 12+ coats of a pure wax (It is important, though, that these coatings go on clean paint, and that the previous coatings have been thoroughly buffed prior to adding more wax. It doesn't hurt to have a little time between the coatings as well......a week or two).

Whether this observation is due to an occurence other than layering will have to be revealed in a study. It should not be, however, due to polishing, or else that would mean that a "pure wax" is not really pure, but containing a cleaning agent.



There are quite a few pure waxes out there, but I have had good results from the proven brands like Mothers, Meguiars and Zai...oops I mean Zymol!!! Just had to throw that little kicker in!:p :up
 
Let me redefine my thought, I'm saying that after a base is laid down, all the pours and micro cracks filled in, you have reached a depth level of say 10k, adding more layers may refinish the surface giving different visibilities but your depth if you could accurately measure it, wouldn't change. Am I making myself better understood? Gives good food for thought!
 
What Alan81 and Scottwax said......applied properly to a well polished surface, two coats is visually sufficient and 3 just might make you feel better....
 
lpquick said:
Let me redefine my thought, I'm saying that after a base is laid down, all the pours and micro cracks filled in, you have reached a depth level of say 10k, adding more layers may refinish the surface giving different visibilities but your depth if you could accurately measure it, wouldn't change. Am I making myself better understood? Gives good food for thought!
Click to expand...



So, then the question could also be posed like this.....or two questions.



1. How would a liquid or wax reach any level of thickness if it doesn't layer?



2. Which product will give you a visual difference after definitive applications? A wax or a polish or cleaner wax?



It could be then, that the term "layer" is perhaps not quite accurate. It may not be physically layering to a measurable degree. Visual depth and quality, I will definitely say, is very noticeable with a pure wax and properly "applied" coatings in various stages. You may in actuality not get a significant physical layering of material over the actual painted surface, particularly if the wax dissolves into a resolution.



But the question remains, where is a published study that will confirm or deny wax characteristics? That is the information that should be referenced, instead of heresay.



PS: "If its standing still, then it's waxed!" Sorry, but I like that catch phrase!:D
 
Just for you Craig.....



http://img29.exs.cx/img29/8396/8315.jpg



Hope this link works OK. I've got stacks of others including those from the magazine shoot but I'm too thick to upload!!



This was achieved using the following.



DACP with Megs purple pad

Speed Glaze using Megs yellow pad

VMW Hand Glaze x 4 by hand

Pinnacle Signature x 1 by hand

Sonus carnuaba spritz



Trim - I followed Rich's method = thin layer of AG Bumper Care, leave for 20 minutes or so than buff with a terry towel. Follow with a fairly thick application of AG Vinyl & Rubber, leave for a few minutes and buff to a sheen



Tyres - Megs Hot Shine tyre spray - spray straight onto a sponge and apply to tyre then walk away



Glass - 1Z windscreen clear. Fine grade steel wool used inside to remove water spots.
 
AndyC



Being a Peugeot 205 nut, I had to do this:

8315.jpg


I hope you don't mind.



VERY NICE! :cool: Keep up the good work. :xyxthumbs
 
Cheers Cal - how do I do that as I've got loads of other photos which I'd love to show but I'm about as adept with downloading as I am with brain surgery!



Is there a specific website or something?
 
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