mothers claybar and zaino

Craig a.k.a. mr. Chemist:



What are your feelings regarding products with pHs of 5-5.5? What would the effects of using a product on the acidic side with a pH of 5-5.5 compared to a product on the alkaline side, such as Dawn?



Thanks in adavnce,



David
 
Mr. Chemist said:
There is a vast difference between calling a product (Dawn) alkaline or "slightly" alkaline and calling a product a "highly" alkaline solution. If a product has a pH in the 7 to 8 range, you simply cannot attribute it's ability to dissolve wax and grease to that property. And the bottom line is...it is not a highly alkaline product.



The fact still remains that it is the detergency of the product coupled with mechanical action that is providing the cleaning power....not alkalinity



The alkaline scale goes from 7 to 14...calling something with a pH of 8 "highly alkaline" is simply not accurate.



Allow me to quote from the Condensed Chemical Dictionary



"Strong bases give solutions of pH 12 or 13, while weak bases give solutions of pH about 8.



This tells us that Dawn Dishwashing Liquids use weak base solutions creating a weak alkaline solution.



Why not just use a pre wax cleaner that is designed to do the job?
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All your points are well taken.



The surfactant agents in detergents are the major players in cleaning along with the physicals forces you mentioned. When washing a vehicle's finish one tends to use a product that decreases the physical forces required to clean surface because no shampoo/detergent will dissolve/breakdown all particulate matter on the surface.



As I was stating in relation to neutrality and pH change of 1 is significant "if" the desired pH for chronic paint maintenence product (washing) is neutral pH (7) or very close to that. As you stated the pH scale for bases range from 7.00001 to 14 and a pH change of 1 is a 14% increase in just the numerical pH scale. On the chemical scale of change the -OH has greatly increase. This small change is significant. I would love to get a 14% growth for every $1 I invest. ;)

Relative to this discussion (detailing) a pH of 8 is high.

That was the point I was illustrating.



In the world of all bases (alkaline solutions) Dawn it is at the low end.



We are just in a semantic disagreement. :D



Love your input Mr Chemist definitely good food for thought. :xyxthumbs
 
exclusivedetail said:
i heard somewhere to use dawn blue, is that right?



also there are some little black dots on the door the claybar couldnt get off, i believe it is tar or a bug.



if i use a bug and tar remover would it mess up the perfect smoothness of my paint and i should re-clay that part or just rub it out and terry cloth it off?



i would really like to learn more about detailing.. and i think i found the place to start :D
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Hey people, did we forget about this guy? :D





Dawn blue was most often recommended because it didn't have any extra additives like anti-bacterial or moisturizers in it. I doubt it's much different from other scented versions though, since even the blue Dawn has a "scent"....



If you use a tar remover it usually just strips the wax, so rewax the area or carry on with your polishing or whatnot. It rarely makes the surface require a claying.
 
Intermezzo said:
Hmm, interesting. Curiousity is really getting the better of me here. Perhaps it's time to remove someone from my ignore list.



Nah! Not worth it! :D :D
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Does Autopia really have a feature to ignore BW? Can you post a link or instructions or something? :wavey
 
blkZ28Conv said:
...definitions ....

First: Any pH higher than 7.0 is alkaline. If a solution is 7.1, it is an alkaline solution.



Second: The pH scale is calculated on a logarithmic scale and a 0.5 increase in the pH number is quite a significant change in pH. If a product like Dawn has a pH of 7.5 - 8, this is 50 to 100 fold increase ...........
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blkZ28Conv,



Never use Zaino... don't plan to, but I always love to read your posts. And now comes Mr. Chemist. Keep them coming, gentlemen! :xyxthumbs :xyxthumbs
 
txz28 said:
Why?



I would think neutral would be the way to go.
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I think the operative word here is "slightly."



Some people may have experience with hard water spots that dealers may have offered to get rid of with an "acid wash." (Vinegar is considered an acid, albeit a mild one, and can be used to remove water marks, assuming they aren't etched in.) The slight acidity will help break down the minerals in the water residue, but it's not so strongly acidic (such as hydrochloric acid) as to destroy the paint, your hands, the ground, etc.



Hope this is what you were wondering!
 
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