mothers claybar and zaino

E

estoriltEck

New member
hi im new here and i just claybared my car yesterday with mothers claybar and WOW ive never felt my car so smooth before! i was at a friends house and forgot my zaino so i just used the mothers carnuaba wax that was included in the box.



i was wondering if i could just put a layer of z5 or 2 over the mothers wax or i have to wash with dawn and start out new?



thanks
 
:welcome to Autopia exclusivedetail



~ One man’s opinion / observations ~



Zanio has compatibility problems (as do most synthetic polymers) with Carnauba wax. Looks like you’ll have to ‘clean’ the surface to remove the wax. I would suggest using Z7





~Hope this helps ~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
 
exclusivedetail said:
hi im new here and i just claybared my car yesterday with mothers claybar and WOW ive never felt my car so smooth before! i was at a friends house and forgot my zaino so i just used the mothers carnuaba wax that was included in the box.



i was wondering if i could just put a layer of z5 or 2 over the mothers wax or i have to wash with dawn and start out new?



thanks
Click to expand...



I would remove the Mother's wax using a 50/50 Mixture of isopropyl alcohol and water. As explained on the Zaino Bros. website, Dawn shouldn't be use on a regular basis.



Try this process:



Z7 Wash

50/50

Z7 Wash

Apply Z5 and then Z2.
 
I have never seen or experienced the compatibility issues with carnauba and synthetics. I am curious as to the symptoms of this incompatibility. Tribal knowledge indicates that many have used our synthetic as a topper or even visa versa...carnauba on top of our synthetic....with exceptional results.
 
Mr. Chemist said:
I have never seen or experienced the compatibility issues with carnauba and synthetics. I am curious as to the symptoms of this incompatibility. Tribal knowledge indicates that many have used our synthetic as a topper or even visa versa...carnauba on top of our synthetic....with exceptional results.
Click to expand...



Iceman (he used to post regularly here) experienced this first hand. He used S100 SEC on his 350Z and applied Zaino Z2 on top, and after an hour of curing, the Z2 came off in flakes. Didn't bond because of the oils in SEC. A Dawn wash later, and everything was back to normal. I am not sure the probably is all synthetics. But the one synthetic which seems to have problems with the oils in Carnauba is Zaino, hence the Dawn wash.
 
Mr. Chemist said:
I have never seen or experienced the compatibility issues with carnauba and synthetics. I am curious as to the symptoms of this incompatibility. Tribal knowledge indicates that many have used our synthetic as a topper or even visa versa...carnauba on top of our synthetic....with exceptional results.
Click to expand...



For optimum results, Zaino prefers to have a surface free of oils, fillers, and/or waxes. This is not to say that Zaino will not work on top of a carnauba wax but you may not get the expected results.
 
Something that I have read on several bulletin boards did not make sense so I have done some "imvestimigation" It has been stated that "Dawn is highly alkaline". Well this didn’t make sense to me as people are continually putting their hands in Dawn to wash dishes...and a highly alkaline solution would definitely be a bad thing...and generally P&G doesn't make errors of that nature, so I ran a pH on a Dawn solution and it is not alkaline...it is basically neutral.



I would say that the reason it removes waxes and oils so well is because it is a well engineered detergent, not because it is alkaline.
 
Mr. Chemist said:
Something that I have read on several bulletin boards did not make sense so I have done some "imvestimigation" It has been stated that "Dawn is highly alkaline". Well this didn’t make sense to me as people are continually putting their hands in Dawn to wash dishes...and a highly alkaline solution would definitely be a bad thing...and generally P&G doesn't make errors of that nature, so I ran a pH on a Dawn solution and it is not alkaline...it is basically neutral.



I would say that the reason it removes waxes and oils so well is because it is a well engineered detergent, not because it is alkaline.
Click to expand...



Funny, I made the same statement a few months ago. I measured the pH of Dawn to be 7.5 to 8. Other car shampoos range in pH from 5.5 to as high as 9.5.
 
deternst.....



It's a myth that has been around for a while so it will take a bit of repetition to debunk...hard to argue with a pH meter.
 
Mr. Chemist said:
deternst.....



It's a myth that has been around for a while so it will take a bit of repetition to debunk...hard to argue with a pH meter.
Click to expand...



I've been guilty of this, that is posting that Dawn is a high alkaline wash, I thought it was, or at least I thought I remember reading or hearing that it was somewhere and then started repeating it in my posts. This was a mistake.



I checked with Mike Pennington, Director of Training for Meguiar's, and he told me I was wrong and that what Meguiar's has always said is detergents will strip wax and polish, Meguiar's has never official stated that any detergent wash is high alkaline.



After reading this, I guess I wanted to step up to the plate and be the first to say I've been wrong before someone else takes that liberty, (there seems to be a few folks that like to do that).



I would also go a step further and in the future I'll do my best to help set the facts straight that detergent washes are not high alkaline.



Another good reason to visit, read and participate on the Autopia discussion forum.



Mike
 
I just did a pH on my Dawn .. neutral too .. But!!!!! Look at the Zaino sight .. and I quote ". I would definitely recommend you remove the wax buildup on your paint. Just use Liquid Dawn (hand dishwashing liquid) as a car wash. It has a high alkaline content which cuts right thru carnauba wax, paraffin, silicone oils, etc. This will get your paint finish squeeky clean and wax free." .. Even they post it as Alkaline when its not.
 
i heard somewhere to use dawn blue, is that right?



also there are some little black dots on the door the claybar couldnt get off, i believe it is tar or a bug.



if i use a bug and tar remover would it mess up the perfect smoothness of my paint and i should re-clay that part or just rub it out and terry cloth it off?



i would really like to learn more about detailing.. and i think i found the place to start :D
 
Let's get our definitions in order and in perspective of the situation we are discussing.



First: Any pH higher than 7.0 is alkaline. If a solution is 7.1, it is an alkaline solution.



Second: The pH scale is calculated on a logarithmic scale and a 0.5 increase in the pH number is quite a significant change in pH. If a product like Dawn has a pH of 7.5 - 8, this is 50 to 100 fold increase (please this rate of change may not be correct - last physical chemistryl class was almost 30 years ago) in alkalinity over a neutral (pH 7.0 solutions).

When compared to a neutral solution or car shampoo this (Dawn) would be considered a relatively "high" alkaline solution.

Of course "high" is also relative to the situation in which this alkaline solution is used. As a chronic vehicle washing solution - not recommended for the many reasons discussed many times before.



As a dish washing detergent, great for cutting greasy dishes without harming ones hand under normal exposure periods. I still would not recommend leaving one's hand submerged in the Dawn solution for hours.



Summation: Small changes in the pH number represent a significant change in alkalinity.



Just my .02.
 
For best results for adding some Zaino or Klasse SG I would recommend a removal of the recently applied carnuaba topper.



Here is a procedure in which one can safely use Dawn as a degeaser / wax remover.



Wash vehicle with normal vehicle shampoo. Mix 1 cap (~5ml) of Dawn in 1 gallon of water in second bucket.

Agitate solution.

Use a plush MF (DF Towels are great for this procedure) and saturate with Dawn solution.

Wring out most of the solution and wipe down previous cleaned painted surfaces one at a time.

Go over surface again with normal vehicle shampoo and rinse well. Take care not to touch trim and rubber components with Dawn moistened towel (same care one uses to apply some waxes, glazes and polishes).



Automotive paints have no naturally occurring oils in their fully dried/cured state. All oils removed using this procedure are foreign to your painted surfaces and can be safely removed.



IPA has its own ill-effects on rubber and plastic components also and one should also be careful using it on these items for the same reasons stated for Dawn and related detergents.
 
There is a vast difference between calling a product (Dawn) alkaline or "slightly" alkaline and calling a product a "highly" alkaline solution. If a product has a pH in the 7 to 8 range, you simply cannot attribute it's ability to dissolve wax and grease to that property. And the bottom line is...it is not a highly alkaline product.



The fact still remains that it is the detergency of the product coupled with mechanical action that is providing the cleaning power....not alkalinity



The alkaline scale goes from 7 to 14...calling something with a pH of 8 "highly alkaline" is simply not accurate.



Allow me to quote from the Condensed Chemical Dictionary



"Strong bases give solutions of pH 12 or 13, while weak bases give solutions of pH about 8.



This tells us that Dawn Dishwashing Liquids use weak base solutions creating a weak alkaline solution.



Why not just use a pre wax cleaner that is designed to do the job?
 
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