I tried some pinnacle clay this last weekend. It started to crumble 1/3rd of the way through the car! using their lube. THen it became a sticky mess. so i tried water and then soap and water. In both cases it became an near solid lump. I've had similar results when using megs clay. Despite people saying they use water, or soap and water, I am finding better performance using a qd or lube. I tried spray and whipe for aobut 20 min, just to finish off the car and it worked very well, But 20 min does not a great test make.