Mobil 1 Extended Performance Oil.

[stevet]

The newest Mobil 1 (regular) meets the API SM service class designation, the EP meets the older SL. Only the SM oils will be allowed to carry the energy-saving "starburst" certification after May 1. Since the SM oils have only come out recently (within the last couple months for Mobil 1), I'm not sure how you could have your warranty violated for using SL.

The Mobil 1 Customer Service Rep said if my car is under warranty and if the car company finds out you are using an oil that doesn't carry the starburst certification they will void the warranty. Thats a big if. You would have to tell them or they would have to test your oil when you brought the car in for service to find out .



So if you use the better oil (Extended Protection) you risk your warranty. If you use the Mobil 1 Super Syn your warranty is safe even though the oil is not as good as the Mobil 1 Extended Protection Oil.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

The Mobil 1 Customer Service Rep said if my car is under warranty and if the car company finds out you are using an oil that doesn't carry the starburst certification they will void the warranty. Thats a big if. You would have to tell them or they would have to test your oil when you brought the car in for service to find out .

I'm not trying to argue, but if I bought 3 cases of Mobil 1 3 months ago, it would be SL with the starburst on the bottle. An oil analysis won't tell anyone if there was a starburst on the bottle or not. Of course, in that situation, I would have receipts for the SL+starburst oil, which you won't if you buy the SL EP now. The one who needs to answer the warranty question is the vehicle manufacturer, not Mobil. If you get something in writing from the vehicle manufacturer saying you can use the M1 EP without voiding the warranty, you are good to go, but they won't buy into an extended drain, I'm sure.

 

[stevet]

I'm not going to do an extended drain. I would change the oil and filter every 5000KM or 3 months. I wanted the Mobil 1 Extended Protection because it is the better oil and doesn't cost much more than the Mobil 1 Super Syn. I don't know what I'm going to do know. Probably stay with Mobil 1 Super Syn 5w30.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I'd ask your vehicle manufacturer. My friend has a Hyundai, and their viscosity recommendations make no sense. I wrote to them to clarify and asked if using a 0W-30 would violate the warranty (it's not listed in their approved viscosities), and to my surprise, they said yes, 0W-30 was ok for year round use. So maybe your mfr. will allow the EP oil...just make sure you have it in writing.

 

[stevet]

Well I phoned Toyota Canada today and asked about this. Using the oil won't void my warranty unless the problem I'm trying to get serviced is caused by the oil. I don't know about this. The guy wouldn't give me a straight answer.

 

[Lenny]

Well I phoned Toyota Canada today and asked about this. Using the oil won't void my warranty unless the problem I'm trying to get serviced is caused by the oil. I don't know about this. The guy wouldn't give me a straight answer.

That is the standard auto industry answer to your question, and pretty much the way the laws regarding warranties allow them to answer.

 

[stevet]

Hmm. Is anybody using this oil with the car still under warranty? It's supposed to be a better oil than the Mobil 1 Super Syn and Super Syn won't void your warranty. What problem could EP cause to my engine that Super Syn wouldn't?

 

[jlfrogy]

I find this very interesting as I just em'd Mobil about a week ago asking them about the 15K oil and explaining that i had an 04 pt cruiser and interested in the EL oil and if I had to change the filter more frequently than the oil. The answer was no just change oil and filter every 15k or 1 year which ever came first. No mention of the warranty thang! Hmmmm!

 

[hirosh]

Hmm. Is anybody using this oil with the car still under warranty? It's supposed to be a better oil than the Mobil 1 Super Syn and Super Syn won't void your warranty. What problem could EP cause to my engine that Super Syn wouldn't?

i don't think you'll have any problems running the EP unless you're engine is not completely broken in. the thing i heard about synthetics was that they're too slippery to let the rings properly set on a new engine. this came from a guy who i feel is knowledgable, he drag races and builds his own engines, etc etc.



and regarding voiding the warranty, i heard the same thing about not voiding the warranty unless the cause can be traced back to the part (oil in your case) you changed/replaced. but, if your engine ever dies or has some major problem, then you might have a hard time making a claim because toyota *may* claim that you didn't use an approved oil and that was the cause of the failure/problem.

 

[stevet]

and regarding voiding the warranty, i heard the same thing about not voiding the warranty unless the cause can be traced back to the part (oil in your case) you changed/replaced. but, if your engine ever dies or has some major problem, then you might have a hard time making a claim because toyota *may* claim that you didn't use an approved oil and that was the cause of the failure/problem.

This is what I'm worried about. The thing is how could Toyota Claim that Mobil 1 EP caused the engine failure when it's a better oil than the Super Syn that Toyota Reccomends to use? Changing the oil shouldn't be this much hassle.

 

[BradE]

i don't think you'll have any problems running the EP unless you're engine is not completely broken in. the thing i heard about synthetics was that they're too slippery to let the rings properly set on a new engine. this came from a guy who i feel is knowledgable, he drag races and builds his own engines, etc etc.

Old myth. Many new cars, like Corvette, Porsche and many others come with synthetic oil as the factory fill.

 

[BA_Titan]

Couple things:

1. Synthetic can be used from day one in a new engine. It is factory fill in the Vette, Porsche, Mercedes and Viper.



2. Amsoil will tell you to change the filter at the Manufactures recommend interval i.e.; every 3 months or 3000 miles for AC/Delco, Fram etc. If you use an AMSOIL filter they say every 6 months.



3. Iâ€â„¢ll post the article from GM talking about they are moving to the âہ“Oil Lifeâ€Â� monitor and trying to get away from the old 3mo/3k garbage. Think some guys just like the sound of âہ“Every 3mo/3k for my car!â€Â� like itâ€â„¢s some macho thingâ€Â¦Ãƒ¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã‚¦



4. Average oil change intervals in Europe are 10,000

5. Yes, I use AMSOIL but would use Mobil1 in a minute. I will never use dino oil again.





I find it funny in todayâ€â„¢s âہ“High Techâ€Â� world we still hang on to a 50 year old way of treating our cars!

Read an note how Jiffy Lube could make like 200 million more a year if they could get each customer in 1 additional time a year. Jiffy Lube (Owned by same bunch that owns Quaker State and some other oils!) and funny most Quick Lubes are owned by Oil Companies!!!!!



According to a feature story in the May 2004 issue of Lubes N Greases, "vehicles equipped with the OLS no longer specify or recommend any mileage interval for oil changes."* As we enter 2005, more and more cars will be going 10,000 miles and beyond without the light going on. GM has finally cut the cord. In 2004 their "April is Car Care Month" campaign advertised that the 3,000 mile oil change may be unnecessary. The alternative today is total reliance on their patented Oil Life System (OLS).

#Supersize Me! GM Moves to extend drain intervals", David McFall, Lubes N Greases, May 2004

 

[topnotchtouch]

I find this very interesting as I just em'd Mobil about a week ago asking them about the 15K oil and explaining that i had an 04 pt cruiser and interested in the EL oil and if I had to change the filter more frequently than the oil. The answer was no just change oil and filter every 15k or 1 year which ever came first. No mention of the warranty thang! Hmmmm!

That is very odd. Mobil's marketing is that regular Mobil 1 is for cars under warranty as it meets the new API GF-4 specifications and wears the API mark. The new Mobil 1 Extended Performance is for vehicles that are out of warranty as it does not meet all of the API GF-4 specifications and does NOT wear the API mark. I believe the reason Mobil 1 EP does not wear the API mark is a problem with one of the fuel economy tests in the API GF-4 specification. Nothing major but, enough to prevent it from wearing the API mark.



Here is a FAQ from Mobil regarding Mobil 1 EP and the new API GF-4 Specifications.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_FAQs.aspx#FAQs3

Does the Mobil 1 Extended Performance meet GF-4 specifications? How did the new specification impact the development of the high-endurance product line?



Mobil 1 Extended Performance contains extra performance additives to deliver exceptional performance and protection. This fully synthetic technology is designed specifically for longer service intervals. While it does not meet all the requirements for GF-4, it provides protection of the critical engine parts well beyond conventional engine oils including conventional GF-4 engine oils, and meets all the engine durability and protection requirements for GF-4. Additionally, Mobil 1 Extended Performance oils exceed the requirements of API SL/CF and various ACEA (European) specifications.

Here is another FAQ regarding your vehicle warranty and the difference between Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 EP.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Oils_FAQs.aspx#Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_FAQs8

What's the difference between Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance?



Mobil 1 with SuperSyn technology exceeds the latest industry and OEM requirements. It is designed for vehicles under warranty and will provide protection for the maximum oil change interval recommended in your owner's manual or by your oil life sensor. Mobil 1 is designed for excellent low temperature and high temperature operation. It is designed to provide the maximum drain interval as recommended in your owner's manual. Mobil 1 Extended Performance is guaranteed to protect your engine for 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.

 

[BradE]

I believe the reason Mobil 1 EP does not wear the API mark is a problem with one of the fuel economy tests in the API GF-4 specification. Nothing major but, enough to prevent it from wearing the API mark.

Right. From my understanding it's the additive pack. Mobil added greater levels of some additives in the EP oil to extend the service interval, but those same additives prevent it from hitting the necessary fuel economy requirements for API.



I doubt most dealers would be smart enough to test the oil if you had a warranty problem. The regular SuperSyn is still good oil, if you want to be on the safe side just go with it.



After reading the VOA's over on Bob's site, the differences in the oil don't really seem that great.

 

[Bumperjazz]

Guess where Amsoil buys their basestock from?



ExxonMobil.



I wouldn't say Amsoil is "the" synthetic oil producer, Mobil is the largest producer of the Group IV and V basestock in the world. Amsoil is small potatos compared to Mobil 1.

Touche. But, does that mean that the no-name gas stations have the same gas in the pumps as is at Shell, etc., since "everyone" gets their oil from the same ~5 manufacturers?



Mobil 1 advertises via TV, auto racing, print, etc. Meguiars advertises in the same way. The other detailing product companies don't.



Is SAAB quality the same as GM (or Ford or whomever owns them today)? Lexus vs their "sister"... etc? Heck, look at our own families--we're from the same basestock, yet look at how we turned out

 

[topnotchtouch]

Right. From my understanding it's the additive pack. Mobil added greater levels of some additives in the EP oil to extend the service interval, but those same additives prevent it from hitting the necessary fuel economy requirements for API.



I doubt most dealers would be smart enough to test the oil if you had a warranty problem. The regular SuperSyn is still good oil, if you want to be on the safe side just go with it.



After reading the VOA's over on Bob's site, the differences in the oil don't really seem that great.

I do believe specifically it was phosphorus levels. Phosphorus is used as an anti-wear additive but, there are those that believe high levels cause catalytic converter poisoning. This is really only the case in cars that burn a significant amount of oil. The new GF-4 specs call for limits on phosphorus.



When I first started reading about the new GF-4 spec and how it was going to affect oils it initially looked like they were going water the oils down all in the name of environmental responsibility. Although they have cut the levels of certain additives they have called for improvements in the base stock as well. All in all I would say the new GF-4/SM oils look better than I initially thought.



I know Amsoil has been pushing extended drains for years but, you have to admire a huge company like Mobil taking a risk and moving out on the edge like they have with the new 5000, 7500, 15000 mile compaign.

 

[stevet]

I doubt most dealers would be smart enough to test the oil if you had a warranty problem. The regular SuperSyn is still good oil, if you want to be on the safe side just go with it.

Brad, lets look at a worst case situation. You are running with Mobil 1 EP and the engine has a major failure. The dealership does test your oil and finds out you are using EP. How could they blame the failure on the Mobil 1 EP? It's at least as good as the Super Syn and better in many ways. The one area that EP came up short and as a result doesn't have the API mark is more for enviroment not engine protection. I just don't see how they could blame the oil and void the warranty when the EP is better than the Super Syn.

 

[94BlkStang]

2k mile change intervals is wasting oil, especially with synthetic.

I agree. That's totally ridiculous to change out any oil at that interval. Even top quality conventional oils can handle a 5,000 mile oil change. Castrol and Chevron are two of the best in that category. The 3,000 mile change has been brought on by the Quicklube Market.

 

[94BlkStang]

Brad, lets look at a worst case situation. You are running with Mobil 1 EP and the engine has a major failure. The dealership does test your oil and finds out you are using EP. How could they blame the failure on the Mobil 1 EP? It's at least as good as the Super Syn and better in many ways. The one area that EP came up short and as a result doesn't have the API mark is more for enviroment not engine protection. I just don't see how they could blame the oil and void the warranty when the EP is better than the Super Syn.

They can void the warranty because you used a product that didn't meet the requirements. It doesn't matter if the oil caused the failure (as that's very hard to prove or disprove). Why have specs if it doesn't mean anything? They can only void the warranty if failure was caused in the part that is being lubricated by the oil. For example, they couldn't void your warranty if you broke a shock as that wouldn't be related to the oil at all.

 

[topnotchtouch]

Brad, lets look at a worst case situation. You are running with Mobil 1 EP and the engine has a major failure. The dealership does test your oil and finds out you are using EP. How could they blame the failure on the Mobil 1 EP? It's at least as good as the Super Syn and better in many ways. The one area that EP came up short and as a result doesn't have the API mark is more for enviroment not engine protection. I just don't see how they could blame the oil and void the warranty when the EP is better than the Super Syn.

Personally I wouldn't mess with your warranty. Even though the new GF-4 API specification does call for a reduction in some additives, it also calls for improvements in the base stock. Bottom line is if you have a warranty I would stick with the API certified version of Mobil 1. It is still a very good oil.



Here is a good thread from www.bobistheoilguy.com regarding GF-4/SM oils.



http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009995



Here is a good thread from www.bobistheoilguy.com regarding Mobil 1 Extended Performance specifically.



http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009296