Microfiber Absorbancy

[Accumulator]

My plush MFs never dry all that well for me either :nixweiss



On the subject of a washing machine contaminating the towels with softener from other loads, it can be a good idea to clean out the softener dispenser before washing MFs. I find that our Duet front-loader retains quite a bit of softener residue in its dispenser, more than the top-loader does by far. Before washing MFs in the Duet, I make sure to clean that residue out.



Ranney- That's interesting about the vinegar leaving residue; never heard that before nor have I had problems with it. But I'll keep it in mind in case I *do* run into problems sometime.

 

[Mikeyc]

For starters, I boiled them for 15-20 minutes. Be careful if you decide to do this. The bubbles that rise from the boiling water get trapped in the towels and when you stir the pot, the towels release the trapped air and poof. Here comes an escaping bubble of boiling water. However, I do notice a difference now. Remember when you first touch a new MF towel it grabs your skin and feels like you have very dry hands. Well, my towels feel like that again after boiling them. Moreover, I sprinkled a little water on each towel after it was dry and it absorbed water quickly. Before, the water drops would sit on the surface and not absorb into the cloth. In short, boiling seems to work.



Patrick

I recently boiled all my towels. It left all kinds of crud crusted on the bottom of the pot. The towels definitely felt "newer" but I tested my WW towels and they didn't seem signficantly more absorbent.

 

[BigAl3]

That's interesting about the vinegar leaving residue; never heard that before nor have I had problems with it.

same here...

 

[ptaylor_9849]

Accumulator, where've you been? I haven't heard from you in months.

 

[Accumulator]

Accumulator, where've you been? I haven't heard from you in months.

Month?!?s Nah, just seems like that I was only offline for awhile the week of Thanksgiving and a week back in Oct. when I was training in NJ.

 

[[RT] ProjUltraZ]

There you go, Thanks Raney. vinegar (acid) may be bad for the MF. maybe a chemical reaction with the polyesters?

 

[BK_DC]

“white vinegar� is a natural fabric softener which could be the reason why the towels are loosing it’s absorbency. Too much of a good thing “vinegar� in this case might be the root of the problem. Over time (few months) with frequent washes, the residue left behind by vinegar in the towel is most likely repelling the water instead of absorbing it.

As a newbie on this site, I really hate that one of my initial posts is in disagreement with Ranney, who I recognize as an expert on towels! But I think the above advice may be a bit off target. As long as your washer is working correctly, using vinegar in your rinse should cause absolutely no problems with MF. In fact, it is one of the best things you can do to clean your towels effectively.



Vinegar is a "natural fabric softener," sure, but not in the sense of the commercial fabric softeners. The latter work by using a chemical surfactant that coats fibers, making them feel softer and eliminating static. Distilled White Vinegar, OTOH, is a rinse aid that helps the washer rinse out the soap in the water and on the towel. It will not build up on fibers. Also, if you have a "second rinse" option on your washer, use it. When you do this, the DWV is used in the first rinse and the second rinse is just water. You can never rinse enough.



There are several things that could be "wrong" with what the OP is doing. He may not have a very good washer that fully cleans the old product off the towels. He may be using too much detergent and/or a detergent with a fabric softener additive. He may be seeing transfer of fabric softener or some other crud from his washer or (more likely) his dryer. Many people use dryer sheets, and those leave a waxy residue inside the dryer. To clean your washer, just run a cycle with no clothes, a cup or so of Cascade dishwasher detergent, and a cycle that fills the drum with hot water. Note this is for TL washers. For FL, read your user manual about how much soap to use.



To wash MF towels -- or any towels, frankly -- you should use a good detergent and a vinegar rinse. Tide is a perfectly acceptable detergent. For a small load of MF towels, use far less than you would use for regular clothes washing. Use the HOTTEST water you can (this is key). Many advanced FL washers have secondary water heaters that allow for a "sanitary" cycle with near-boiling water. Use it. Using very hot water will help lift all the crud off your towels to be rinsed away.



Finally, it's also possible the OP expects too much from MF towels. Most are not that absorbent to begin with.

 

[Accumulator]

BK-DC- Welcome to Autopia!



Heh heh, hope you didn't step into a buzzsaw with your first posting This topic sometimes gets sorta contentious.



I'd always thought along the lines of what you posted. Then, in another thread about waffleweave MF adsorbency (adsorbency for MFs, absorbency for cotton IIRC), the following came up:

I take no credit for this explanation (or claim its validity). This is what a google-->wikipedia search resulted in.



"Fabric softeners work by coating the surface of the cloth fibers with a thin layer of chemicals; these chemicals have lubricant properties and are electrically conductive, thus making the fibers feel smoother and preventing buildup of static electricity. Other functions are improvements of iron glide during ironing, increased resistance to stains, and reduction of wrinkling.



Cationic softeners bind by electrostatic attraction to the negatively charged groups on the surface of the fibers and neutralizing their charge; the long aliphatic chains are then oriented towards the outside of the fiber, imparting lubricity. Vinegar works on some materials in a similar way, as the hydrogen ions bind to the anionic groups on the fibers.



The disadvantage of coating fibers by hydrophobic layer is in decreasing the water absorption properties of the fabric, which may be an issue with eg. towels and diapers. Therefore the cationic softeners are often combined with other chemicals with lower affinity to the fibers."

You might check out that thread and see what we came up with. Pretty much the same topic. If it provides any fuel for thought, please post back here or on that thread. I sure wish I knew enough about this stuff to have a better understanding of what's going on with vinegar as a softener.



See if this links you to the other thread: http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-product-discussion/101648-i-wish-my-microfiber-towels-didnt-do.html



Oh, and I agree that non-waffle-weave MFS don't pick up water very well. I never did figure out how anybody dries with them without leaving tiny drops behind :nixweiss



But my plush MF *mitts* do a good job of picking up QD and are what I often use for my post-wash QDing.



Oh#2, and I also agree with you about how you can never rinse too much...check out that thread to see what I went through trying to get all the detergent residue out of two WWMFs.

 

[BK_DC]

See if this links you to the other thread: http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-product-discussion/101648-i-wish-my-microfiber-towels-didnt-do.html

\r\nThanks! I will go take a look. Based just on the text you quoted, I may be in over my head in a technical discussion. However, I\'ve spent quite a bit of time with some folks who are well versed in laundry and detergents (you know how the Internet is... there are actually forums for this sort of thing), and it is generally accepted by that group that DWV in rinse water works purely as a rinse aid and leaves nothing behind. None of us are chemists, though.\r\n\r\nI have used DWV on all of my laundry -- not just MF -- for years, and I have noticed no difference in towel absorbency. Seeing those photos makes me want to buy some new towels of the same variety, though, and compare absorbency of the new ones versus the ones I\'ve washed at least 50 times with DWV rinses.'

 

[BK_DC]

See if this links you to the other thread: http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-product-discussion/101648-i-wish-my-microfiber-towels-didnt-do.html

Thanks! I will go take a look. Based just on the text you quoted, I may be in over my head in a technical discussion. However, I've spent quite a bit of time with some folks who are well versed in laundry and detergents (you know how the Internet is... there are actually forums for this sort of thing), and it is generally accepted by that group that DWV in rinse water works purely as a rinse aid and leaves nothing behind. None of us are chemists, though.



I have used DWV on all of my laundry -- not just MF -- for years, and I have noticed no difference in towel absorbency. Seeing those photos makes me want to buy some new towels of the same variety, though, and compare absorbency of the new ones versus the ones I've washed at least 50 times with DWV rinses.

 

[Accumulator]

..Based just on the text you quoted, I may be in over my head in a technical discussion... None of us are chemists, though..

Heh heh, I know *exactly* what you mean! I don't like being (or admitting that I'm) in over my head on this stuff, but I simply don't know enough to evaluate the info.

..I have used DWV on all of my laundry -- not just MF -- for years, and I have noticed no difference in towel absorbency..

I have mixed results with other textiles; some get *very* soft with the DWV rinse and others don't. As I mentioned in the other thread, I seldom had a big issue with compromised absorbency even with certain regular fabric softeners.

 

[BigHonu]

No technical knowledge here, but just relaying my experiences with the PakShak towels.



These are only used for either 1) QD application and removal or 2) drying step during ONR washes



New: GREAT absorbency, even for drying purposes, but still not as good as a WW.



Washed with HOT water, Melaluca detergent, a touch of Simple Green with 2 rinse cycles and a bit of DWV in the second rinse, line dried. The fibers felt 'dry' and grabby, but absorbency went down, maybe 60% of original. Quite a bit of streaking



Same towels washed and dried in the same manner, but WITHOUT the DWV rinse came out slightly softer feeling, but improved absorbency...90% of orginal. Streaking was greatly reduced.



I'd try putting these in the dryer, but am concerned that it would pick up any dryer sheet residue in there.



As an OT observance, I'm always surprised at how much suds are present in the rinse water even after the second rinse.

 

[Vader007]

Wow, great thread guys, I've learned alot.

I am boiling my WW towels as I type this, my problem is that my WW towels were no longer absorbing water, just like stated above they actually were just smearing/pushing the water around.

I couldnt figure out why and still cant as I wash them with my microfibers in hot water with Micro-Restore and some simple green to cut the wax and grease, and rinse with DWV. They wierd part is the micros seem fine its just the ww towles that no longer absorb?

I also use liquid tide but with bleach alternative so that may be part of the problem, but why hasnt it affected the micro fibers?

 

[Accumulator]

..Same towels washed and dried in the same manner, but WITHOUT the DWV rinse came out slightly softer feeling, but improved absorbency...90% of orginal..

Huh...that's almost exactly the opposite of what I experienced :think: This stuff sure is weird...



Vader007- Hope the boiling helps, let us know how they turn out.

 

[Vader007]

BIG PROBLEM!!!!!! when removing the WW towels from the boiling water I found my foam applicator which I recently used to apply some 845 with.........so now I pored the boiling water with ww towels into a clean wash bucket and added some Dawn power disolve and Micro-Restore to soak in, of course after removing the foam pad.

My next step is to wash them in the washing machine and rinse with just water. (no vinegar) stay tuned for the results!

 

[BigHonu]

Huh...that's almost exactly the opposite of what I experienced :think: This stuff sure is weird....

I'm not sure how to explain it either. :think: :think:



I guess a better description would be that the towels, when put through the DWV rinse would end up with a slightly clumpy finish where the fibers would end up drying stuck together in very small patches. When I ran my hand over them, they felt grabby and not very plush.



The towels without the DWV rinse come out of the washer with the same clumpy look, but dry out fluffier. When I run my hand over them, they are not nearly as grabby.



To be honest, the only reason I tried without the DWV was because I forgot to put it in one time. The towels came out as described, and I have only done the DWV rinse one time since just to make sure I wasn't imagining things.

 

[pogo123]

One big difference that no one is discussing is the water that we are using. Is your water hard or soft? Well water or Municipal water? High mineral content or not? Many municipalities add chemicals to improve taste, odor, PH etc. and these could also have an effect on the towels and our cars. I also have noticed that some spray waxes and wax as you dry products really reduce the absorbency of my towels, so I use dedicated towels for those products. For example, if I'm going to use Duragloss AW as a wax as I dry I will use an absorber instead of my WW because I've noticed reduced absorbency in the WW when using that product. Funny thing is it doesn't seem to affect the absorber's absorbency at all.

 

[Accumulator]

Vader007- Heh heh, nothing like a little 845 residue to skew the results



BigHonu- Huh..whenever I don't rinse with *something* other than regular water I get the same nasty results *you* get with the DWV :nixweiss We really do seem to be getting diametrically opposite results!



pogo123- Good points. I once bypassed the softener just to see what would happen, and everything came out stiff as cardboard



One problem I think I'm having is that I like to use QDs when I dry..so the WWs are gonna be contaminated and I doubt it's *all* coming out in the wash. But if I use plenty of detergent to help get it out, I end up with detergent residue...sorta a no-win situation that keeps my WW vendors happy



And yeah, I use absorbers for various things (not drying the vehicles) and they *always* do their job to the same degree of effectiveness whether I do a DWV rinse or not. I suspect they simply do the capillary-action thing regardless of such stuff (as long as you don't clog 'em up with something like a regular fabric softener).

 

[tom p.]

Guys, anything definitive on this front? Seems like nobody has a straight forward solution to this lack of absorbency. A couple of my smaller drying towels have recently become worthless....they'll dry nothing and just push the water around on the surface. It's kind of annoying and they're my favorite :help:



I've tried different wash and rinse routines including a dedicated MF towel cleaner, nothing seems to help. In fact, they actually seem worse when I used them this past weekend.



I've never tried the boiling routine. Do we believe it to be worthwhile?



Thx.

 

[Accumulator]

... A couple of my smaller drying towels have recently become worthless....they'll dry nothing and just push the water around on the surface...I've never tried the boiling routine. Do we believe it to be worthwhile?

In your situation I'd try the boiling. Fortunately mine have revitalized well enough (not perfectly) with just numerous washes using the "sanitize" cycle, so I haven't tried it yet.



But yeah...the other day I used one of my newer WWs and *man* did it work better than what I'm used to.



Maybe it's just a limited-useful-life thing :nixweiss