Menzerna SIP is NOT Blackfire Compound(?!)

ZoranC: I can´t tell the cut of the Blackfire compound since I don´t have used it. But if you think that the blackfire compound have the cut and charachteristics of PG. Then it can´t be RD3.02.



The only differences between RD3.02 and RD3.01 is that .02 have more powder to work faster then .01. The cut and gloss is the same.
 
porta said:
ZoranC: I can´t tell the cut of the Blackfire compound since I don´t have used it. But if you think that the blackfire compound have the cut and charachteristics of PG. Then it can´t be RD3.02.



The only differences between RD3.02 and RD3.01 is that .02 have more powder to work faster then .01. The cut and gloss is the same.
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Keep in mind I did say I have zero experience and that to inexperienced me it seemed more aggressive (I was not talking about cut but speed) than SIP and similar to PG (I did not say it is same as PG).



Somebody experienced would be much better to say than me. That is why I offered samples to SpoiledMan.
 
Aha okey, well we can only hope that someone with more experience of blackfire compound and SIP can chime in.
 
ZoranC said:
Keep in mind I did say I have zero experience and that to inexperienced me it seemed more aggressive (I was not talking about cut but speed) than SIP and similar to PG (I did not say it is same as PG).



Somebody experienced would be much better to say than me. That is why I offered samples to SpoiledMan.
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Twist my arm already. I'll take em. I'll get them when I get the towels. You busy this Saturday? I'll be "in class" so you know where to find me.;)
 
Guys, I have been one of the ones saying that Blackfire SCR is the same thing as Menzerna SIP 3.01. I got that information directly from CMA, while talking to one of their reps using the Live Help function of their web page many months ago.



Here is a cut and paste directly from the properautocare.com website, Blackfire Scratch Resistant Compound page:



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

In 2005, we approached Menzerna of Germany and asked them to adapt their state-of-the-art, ceramic clear coat polishes for the enthusiast aftermarket. Menzerna, working with Mercedes Benz, developed a compound and polish to remove defects in the new nano, ceramic particle clear coats. These polishes are currently used at the OEM level in various auto manufacturing plants world wide and are considered within the polishing industry to be the most advanced polishes in the world.

So why change them?

Polishes developed for the assembly line, are designed for finishes that have been oven-baked but before the clear coat has reached it's maximum hardness. These polishes may dry too quickly when used on fully cured, scratch resistant clear coats. To facilitate the extended polishing needed to remove defects in cured, scratch resistant clears, Menzerna added additional lubricating oils to their OEM formulas. This means the enthusiast can polish longer without fear of creating excessive haze.

The result of the Menzerna-Blackfire collaboration is BLACKFIRE Scratch Resistant Clear, Finishing Polish. This formula is exclusive to BLACKFIRE and offers the do-it-yourself, enthusiast a number of advantages



<<<<<<<<<<<<



Sounds like they allude to this being SIP in the above text.
 
SpoiledMan said:
Twist my arm already.
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:D



SpoiledMan said:
You busy this Saturday? I'll be "in class" so you know where to find me.;)
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This would have worked wonderful but my chemicals are at my gf (in Covina) and I won't see her till Saturday and won't be heading back until very late. I will get them ready for you though.
 
Exactly--still isn't conclusive that they are claiming the compound is the same as SIP. However, does it make sense that the Finishing Polish is the same as SIP?



My info also came from a rep at CMA--and they were absolutely aghast that Compound would be viewed as anywhere near the same as SIP. (Then again, they initially told me the compound could be used with a white pad!!)
 
new2mud said:
However, does it make sense that the Finishing Polish is the same as SIP?
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As said many times before, BF SRC FP is based on Menzerna 106FF.



new2mud said:
Then again, they initially told me the compound could be used with a white pad!!
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I would not find that unusual as I have read many times nothing stronger than green is needed even with PG.
 
ZoranC said:
I would not find that unusual as I have read many times nothing stronger than green is needed even with PG.
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Goes to show what "you've read" is worth...(esp. considering I 'read' that SIP and SRC Compound were the same) LOL!



Sorry, but white and green ain't gonna cut it on hard clear coats like Audi and newer M-B.



Even using an orange pad with SRC Compound it took 3 passes on a 4" pad to get through some of the minor scratches on an Audi hard clear coat. The black paint looks gorgeous now but sure beat the heck out of the pads.
 
ZoranC said:
As said many times before, BF SRC FP is based on Menzerna 106FF.
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Yup--I forgot about that--so then, SRC Compound is NOT 106FF, and does not appear to be SIP.



..the mystery continues...
 
Crap, I copied and pasted the wrong part of their website. My last post had the description for their 106ff based finishing polish. The following is from the Blackfire Scratch Resistant Compound web page:



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Remove deeper swirls, spots & defects in the new scratch-resistant clear coats.



This is a companion product to BLACKFIRE S.R.C. Finishing Polish designed to remove deeper (1500 - 2000 grit) swirls, scratches and defects in ceramic particle and scratch-resistant clear coats. Like S.R.C. Finishing Polish, BLACKFIRE Scratch Resistant Clear, Compound is manufactured in Germany by Menzerna, exclusively for BLACKFIRE. It is an adaptation of the same compound used at the OEM level by German and domestic automakers. Like S.R.C. Finishing Polish, S.R.C. Compound contains additional lubricating oils to allow the enthusiast to "work" the compound longer without fear of excessive compounding haze

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



There's the proof, guys. I guess the person on the Live Chat that I talked to was right: It's Menzerna SIP 3.01 with added oils for a longer working time.
 
SuperBee364 said:
This is a companion product to BLACKFIRE S.R.C. Finishing Polish designed to remove deeper (1500 - 2000 grit) swirls ...



There's the proof, guys. I guess the person on the Live Chat that I talked to was right: It's Menzerna SIP 3.01 with added oils for a longer working time.
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Except that, as I mentioned before, SIP 3.01 removes, according to Menzerna, 2000 and finer, while 3.02 1500 and finer. That is why I suspect BF SRC Compound is 3.02.
 
SuperBee364 said:
Interesting, ZoranC, I'll have to check it out... I have both BSRC and SIP 3.02. I'll report back...
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At long last--someone that can compare directly! Please give us an after-action report...
 
My wife had the Charger out for a while today. While she was parked in a parking lot, someone maliciously scratched the hood in several places. Most of the scratches go all the way through to the metal, but a few of them look like they can be reduced quite a bit.



I'll be using the BSRC and SIP 3.0.2 on the repair attempt, and I'll post the pics and results when I get a chance. Might not be for a while, cause I have to go out of town for four days tomorrow evening.



I'm so pissed I can hardly type.
 
Hey SuperBee, very sorry to hear about the car.......I know and can personally say your car is PERFECT in the paint!!!



I have used the 3.02 and BSCR that SuperBee sold me. Here are my experiences with them, sorry no pics I know..........



ROTARY MACHINE:

the 3.02 is much faster cutting with the orange SSC and WOW what a finish.



the BSCR is a slower cut with the same set up and WOW what a finish.



I attemped to try out some IP on the same set up and it cut much slower and did not finish out with the WOW, I needed to do a second pass, or third, and finsih with 106FF to truly get the WOW. So if your making money by being quick, then these are the way to go.



I had to work the BSCR for a longer time frame to get the same results as 3.02, but the results are very hard for me to tell a difference. The BSCR at speeds under 1800, closer to 1500 seem to really allow a longer working time, once I speed up to 1800 it seems to shorten the working time drastically. The 3.02 is similar in behavior, but the working time seem to be about 3 min less for the same given area and correction of damage.



I am still playing with the products but, unless I'm working on very hard clears the BSCR seems to be the cheaper way with the same bang.



Even on a NISSAN paint (black) this stuff rocks, either BSCR or 3.02.:clap: :clap:



Cheers,
 
Thanks, Greg.. Yeah, it sucks. It looks like they took a key to my hood.



Replace that orange LC foam pad with one of your new purple foamed wool for a real treat when working the 3.02. :)
 
SuperBee364 said:
My wife had the Charger out for a while today. While she was parked in a parking lot, someone maliciously scratched the hood in several places
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sorry to hear about that, too bad you didn't catch them in the act :bat ! jealous b*stards... :mad:
 
YES, I want to try out a purple foamed wool with BSCR and 3.02, I need to........but I'm getting tired of buying stuff all the time. I really think that Menzerna or BSCR is the way to go for absolute correction of paint. I can use the stuff I have for the person that cannot afford total corrction, but wants a good polish and waxing.



cheers,
 
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