Menzerna PO87c vs. P106FA???

[Old Pirate]

Don't forget to check your ink..................

 

[Bill D]

Yep, got it on draft mode, hopefully will save , but it's worth it. One thing though, in re-reading this thread:

. Menzerna uses aluminum oxide clusters (which are fairly common). If you take these aluminum oxide clusters and put them in a stove or outside in the sun they will not magically break down. What breaks down abrasives is friction, and because aluminum oxide is clustered, it will break down when used with a DA, a rotary, or hand.

I though the Menzerna polishes at least, the ones for Ceramic paint, use a high grade or optical grade cerium oxide and that was the whole fanfare when they came out as to why they correct these finishes so well, and in turn any finish well. I had always understood Menzerna to be the noteworthy manufacturer due to its cerium oxide based polishes, but maybe this was misinformation. It’s more or less a non issue, doesn’t matter to me what abrasive is used if it corrects fabulously, I was just there

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Fantastic chart! Cuts through the confusion. I'm pressing the print button! :bigups

Thanks Bill, I have charts for all of the Menzerna polishes, I will work on a thread tonight after I get the little guy to bed. (My wife is out of town and I'm taking my son to the batting cages!).

 

[Bunky]

The Crimson H20 pad cuts about the same as a Lake Country white pad and finishes on par with the black foam.

I must have not been paying attention but this is the first time I recall the h20 red cutting like white and finishing like a black pad.

 

[Garry Dean]

Let me see if can clarify what I was saying, if I understand that your saying that you didn't understand what I saying, you know what I'm saying?



That wasn't exactly my point. You really can't design any diminishing abrasive to break down exactly the same irregardless of application method because it is friction (not heat) that causes them to break apart. Since each application method (even similar application machines with different speeds, pads, paint hardness, etc) impart different amounts of friction, the abrasives will break down differently.

My point was that aluminum oxide abrasives used in Menzerna or other polishes are going to break down from friction, regardless of how the friction is applied. This isn't to say that some people may or may not get better results with particular application methods.

Also, Menzerna is/was primarily an OEM abrasive manufacturer. The products are/where optimized for the different needs at the OEM level, where pneumatic DA's are used quite frequently. While I am not 100% sure what Menzerna's internal testing policies/procedures I know a gentleman in Germany who does external testing for Menzerna as he testes the products on various machines including DA polishers.



Again I am sorry for the confusion. The results will not be exactly the same as there are many factors that contribute to the overall result, such as application method, pad selection, speed, paint hardness, chemical contamination, and environmental factors. However, provided enough friction is applied (regardless of how it is applied) the abrasives will fracture apart.

Thanks, Todd. I understand what you were trying to say better now. That just goes to show that you can't believe everything you're told. Even if the source seems reliable.

 

[Garry Dean]

Let me see if can clarify what I was saying, if I understand that your saying that you didn't understand what I saying, you know what I'm saying?



That wasn't exactly my point. You really can't design any diminishing abrasive to break down exactly the same irregardless of application method because it is friction (not heat) that causes them to break apart. Since each application method (even similar application machines with different speeds, pads, paint hardness, etc) impart different amounts of friction, the abrasives will break down differently.

My point was that aluminum oxide abrasives used in Menzerna or other polishes are going to break down from friction, regardless of how the friction is applied. This isn't to say that some people may or may not get better results with particular application methods.

Also, Menzerna is/was primarily an OEM abrasive manufacturer. The products are/where optimized for the different needs at the OEM level, where pneumatic DA's are used quite frequently. While I am not 100% sure what Menzerna's internal testing policies/procedures I know a gentleman in Germany who does external testing for Menzerna as he testes the products on various machines including DA polishers.



Again I am sorry for the confusion. The results will not be exactly the same as there are many factors that contribute to the overall result, such as application method, pad selection, speed, paint hardness, chemical contamination, and environmental factors. However, provided enough friction is applied (regardless of how it is applied) the abrasives will fracture apart.

Thanks, Todd. I understand what you were trying to say better now. That just goes to show that you can't believe everything you're told. Even if the source seems reliable.

Very nice charts, btw.