Menzerna IP or SIP with the LC orange pad?

S

superblack350

New member
i have a black 350z that seems to have a hard time getting the paint corrected. I have used the Pinnicle XMT line twice and i'm not getting what i want out of it. It's definately better, but no where near what i believe is perfect. I used the XMT intermediate swirl remover with the orange pad with two passes, the XMT fine polish with a white pad, and teh XMT finishing glaze with a greyish black pad. I seem to get hologram(i think this is waht it's called) lines down the car. Not sure if i'm goign to fast with the PC or i'm using crappy Microfiber towels when buffing the product off.



I'm thinking of getting the Menzerna line. I searched and people are praising the super intenseive polish more than the regular intensive polish. I will be using the PC with the orange pad? Which should i get? Am i hurting my clearcoat too much since i already used the XMT line twice in two months wihc each time i used two passes on on the intermediate polish? My car doesnn't seme perfect but i don't wnat to ruin my paint. Is the Merzerna SIP too harsh? My paint isn't horrible condition, but it is black and has swirls and scratches.





I read the description for SIP and it says teh following "Menzerna Super Intensive Polish is designed for the removal of scratches, swirls, and oxidation on the scratch-resistant clear coats used by Mercedes Benz. Concentrated, specially milled abrasives remove 2000 grit sanding scratches to leave a brilliant shine with little or no hazing. "



This can still be used for other cars with normal clear? Thanks if some of you guys can help me. I"m so confused right now.
 
I bought and used SIP specifically because my VW has hard clear coat. I ran two passes of #83 over and it still wasn't all that great, so I bought the Menzerna. After a deliberately slow pass with SIP using a 4" LC orange (and with moderate pressure applied), I finally got the clear down a level I find acceptable. I'm talking slow (as in 1" per second) and the paint surface was a bit hot to the touch afterwards. Sounds dangerous, eh? I was going to step down to 106FF afterwards with a white pad, but a test spot didn't reveal any difference. I read somewhere that if you have hard clear, a medium-level polish will finish to LSP-ready. Not sure why that would be though.



If you're worried about thinning your clear too much, see if you can borrow a good paint meter from someone. They're expensive, but I briefly considered actually buying one.



$45 sounds about right. The Nano polish (106) is even more.



BTW, this is what holograms look like: http://autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/97446-worst-rotary-work-ever.html
 
doc-rice said:
I bought and used SIP specifically because my VW has hard clear coat. I ran two passes of #83 over and it still wasn't all that great, so I bought the Menzerna. After a deliberately slow pass with SIP using a 4" LC orange (and with moderate pressure applied), I finally got the clear down a level I find acceptable. I'm talking slow (as in 1" per second) and the paint surface was a bit hot to the touch afterwards. Sounds dangerous, eh? I was going to step down to 106FF afterwards with a white pad, but a test spot didn't reveal any difference. I read somewhere that if you have hard clear, a medium-level polish will finish to LSP-ready. Not sure why that would be though.



If you're worried about thinning your clear too much, see if you can borrow a good paint meter from someone. They're expensive, but I briefly considered actually buying one.



$45 sounds about right. The Nano polish (106) is even more.



BTW, this is what holograms look like: http://autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/97446-worst-rotary-work-ever.html
Click to expand...





Thanks for your post. Yeah, my clear seems to be hard. I just don't want to waste ove r100 dollars with to small bottles and not get results. BTW, my car doesn't look like that halogram pic. I have like one halogram line down eveyr 2 feet of the car consistantly. Hard to explain.



Any other people can chime in?
 
superblack350 said:
i have a black 350z that seems to have a hard time getting the paint corrected. I have used the Pinnicle XMT line twice and i'm not getting what i want out of it. It's definately better, but no where near what i believe is perfect. I used the XMT intermediate swirl remover with the orange pad with two passes, the XMT fine polish with a white pad, and teh XMT finishing glaze with a greyish black pad. I seem to get hologram(i think this is waht it's called) lines down the car. Not sure if i'm goign to fast with the PC or i'm using crappy Microfiber towels when buffing the product off.



I'm thinking of getting the Menzerna line. I searched and people are praising the super intenseive polish more than the regular intensive polish. I will be using the PC with the orange pad? Which should i get? Am i hurting my clearcoat too much since i already used the XMT line twice in two months wihc each time i used two passes on on the intermediate polish? My car doesnn't seme perfect but i don't wnat to ruin my paint. Is the Merzerna SIP too harsh? My paint isn't horrible condition, but it is black and has swirls and scratches.





I read the description for SIP and it says teh following "Menzerna Super Intensive Polish is designed for the removal of scratches, swirls, and oxidation on the scratch-resistant clear coats used by Mercedes Benz. Concentrated, specially milled abrasives remove 2000 grit sanding scratches to leave a brilliant shine with little or no hazing. "



This can still be used for other cars with normal clear? Thanks if some of you guys can help me. I"m so confused right now.
Click to expand...



Is the problem XMT3 is not removing all the swirls or you are not getting the clarity (when finishing) you are looking for? If it's not removing all the swirls then I'm not sure that SIP will do any better, because XMT3 and SIP have similar cutting abilities. If it's not removing all the swirls, try concentration on a smaller area (~18"x18") and use slow overlapping movements - start speed 3 - to spread the polish

work in - speed 6 - 10-15# pressure

and last few passes - speed 5 - light pressure.



Or switch to 4" pads



Now if XMT is not finishing the way you want then definitely invest in some 106FF or PO85RD. I have yet to use any polish that finishes as well as Menzerna...especially on black. 106FF or PO85RD are worth the price.



And yes they can be used on any clearcoat...Here is a post I did comparing the difference between the a PC and Rotary with SIP and 106FF.



http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-product-discussion/97255-pc-106ff-help-please-3.html#post1002489
 
I don't have the SIP, but do have IP. I can get pretty good results with it and my PC (although I've recently stepped up to a Flex XC 3401 VRG). IP does dust up like crazy, but you really won't mind after getting correct results. I just give the car a quick rinse down, sheet the water, and then dry gently with MF WW towels. I get decent correction with PC on speed 6 and a 6" yellow or orange Edge 2K pad. It usually finishes down pretty well. I'm not sure if it's how I do my passes or what. After going real slow over it a few times with a good amount of pressure, I would go real slow with very little pressure and let the pad spin out on it, and then gear down to about a 4 with slight pressure and do another up/down and righ/left. This will not be perfect, but noticeably better. For better correction, you almost need a smaller pad size, such as a 4". I think 4" orange would get you what you need, might have to sneak a yellow in there. This gives a lot more spin on the pad and works a little quicker, but you're also working a smaller surface area (6" vs. 4"). If you're only doing your car once or twice a year, then this shouldn't be that bad. Again, doing some movements with very light pressure and then gearing down to about a 3.5 - 4 should help with getting it to finish down pretty nicely. This is just my opinion as someone may call BS on me. I've never had any hologramming with my PC (or Flex so far).



Here's a quick example. I was detailing an Acural RL this weekend. I had just finished up polishing with IP which reduced >85% of swirls and surface marks, and was getting ready to apply some FMJ with PC and white Edge 2k pad. I went to manually spread wax on pad, and it doubled up on itself, and the hard plate inside the Edge pad left about 10 tiny scratch marks about an 1.25" long on the hood. I was pissed as all hell that this happened. I just got the RL looking in pretty good shape and this happens. I said, "hell no!". Slapped a yellow Edge 4" pad on it, squirted a couple drops of IP on, spread, cranked up to 6, and made some movements on it. Scratches were completely gone after about 1 minute. Keep in mind that I was working a very small area. The scratches lightly caught my finternail as well. I was pretty impressed by that with the PC. Put the white pad back on, covered it with FMJ again, and was on my way to the rest of the car.
 
blkyukon said:
Is the problem XMT3 is not removing all the swirls or you are not getting the clarity (when finishing) you are looking for? If it's not removing all the swirls then I'm not sure that SIP will do any better, because XMT3 and SIP have similar cutting abilities. If it's not removing all the swirls, try concentration on a smaller area (~18"x18") and use slow overlapping movements - start speed 3 - to spread the polish

work in - speed 6 - 10-15# pressure

and last few passes - speed 5 - light pressure.



Or switch to 4" pads



Now if XMT is not finishing the way you want then definitely invest in some 106FF or PO85RD. I have yet to use any polish that finishes as well as Menzerna...especially on black. 106FF or PO85RD are worth the price.



And yes they can be used on any clearcoat...Here is a post I did comparing the difference between the a PC and Rotary with SIP and 106FF.



http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-product-discussion/97255-pc-106ff-help-please-3.html#post1002489
Click to expand...



whoa, thanks for the post and link. Well, i think i kinda know my problem after reading your post. I do do a larger area. I don' tthink i'm breaking it down enough and also using a bit too much. The two times that i used teh three step XMT intermediate line, it has taken me like 16 hours total. Two days worth of working on the PC. I think i need to stick to smaller area while goign slower. I think that's the reason why i'm getting those halogram lines in my paint every 2 feet or so around the whole car. Just vertical lines down the paint. I think i'm using too much product and going to fast at the end.



Would you suggest me try it one more time with the xmt line? I feel the xmt fine polish doesn't remove the micromarring. Any suggestion on how use it better? I already so those vids from pinnacle.



Would using a cheap microfiber cause those halogram lines when i take off the polish after it breaks down?



Thanks for your answer. You seem to know a lot. Hope i don't bother you with these questions.
 
superblack350 said:
whoa, thanks for the post and link. Well, i think i kinda know my problem after reading your post. I do do a larger area. I don' tthink i'm breaking it down enough and also using a bit too much. The two times that i used teh three step XMT intermediate line, it has taken me like 16 hours total. Two days worth of working on the PC. I think i need to stick to smaller area while goign slower. I think that's the reason why i'm getting those halogram lines in my paint every 2 feet or so around the whole car. Just vertical lines down the paint. I think i'm using too much product and going to fast at the end.
Click to expand...

It's OK to do a larger area, but you must be familiar with the polish and machine you are using otherwise, sometimes with larger areas, you'll get impatient and try to rush the process.



I always recommend starting with a small area until you get comfortable with the polish and machine you are using. I'd also recommend using speed 5 too. On speed 6 I think people tend to move the PC too fast and they don't work the polish in properly.





Would you suggest me try it one more time with the xmt line? I feel the xmt fine polish doesn't remove the micromarring. Any suggestion on how use it better? I already so those vids from pinnacle.
Click to expand...



You have them, so yes...if it's just micromarring or hazing try XMT1 with a polishing pad -



use a smaller area

less polish

and check your work as it breaks down until the hazing is removed.





Here is a link to my polishing section that might help:



Car Detailing - How to Polish your Paint





Would using a cheap microfiber cause those halogram lines when i take off the polish after it breaks down?
Click to expand...

It hard to say without seeing them but I don't think so...they might be caused from residue or oils from the glaze or wax. Try spraying some distilled water or QD on the area and see if that helps.



Thanks for your answer. You seem to know a lot. Hope i don't bother you with these questions.
Click to expand...



Thank you and no bother at all, we are all here to help.



Good luck!
 
blkyukon said:
It's OK to do a larger area, but you must be familiar with the polish and machine you are using otherwise, sometimes with larger areas, you'll get impatient and try to rush the process.



I always recommend starting with a small area until you get comfortable with the polish and machine you are using. I'd also recommend using speed 5 too. On speed 6 I think people tend to move the PC too fast and they don't work the polish in properly.









You have them, so yes...if it's just micromarring or hazing try XMT1 with a polishing pad -



use a smaller area

less polish

and check your work as it breaks down until the hazing is removed.





Here is a link to my polishing section that might help:



Car Detailing - How to Polish your Paint







It hard to say without seeing them but I don't think so...they might be caused from residue or oils from the glaze or wax. Try spraying some distilled water or QD on the area and see if that helps.







Thank you and no bother at all, we are all here to help.



Good luck!
Click to expand...



wow, nice link again. I thought i saw most vids on the internet, i guess not. Good job with the yukon. I watched the whole video on the full detail. It seems i got a lot slower than you. I'm polishing probably 1" per second with the #3 and #1 XMT. Am i going to slow? Your vid and the vid with from pinnicle are diff. They move a lot slower. I'm probably going to go do another detail this weekend and making sure i'm checking in between for no hazing. Thanks a lot for all of your help. I owe you big time.
 
superblack350 said:
wow, nice link again. I thought i saw most vids on the internet, i guess not. Good job with the yukon. I watched the whole video on the full detail. It seems i got a lot slower than you. I'm polishing probably 1" per second with the #3 and #1 XMT. Am i going to slow? Your vid and the vid with from pinnicle are diff. They move a lot slower. I'm probably going to go do another detail this weekend and making sure i'm checking in between for no hazing. Thanks a lot for all of your help. I owe you big time.
Click to expand...



The speed, speed of movement, pressure, etc. will all vary. Like I say on my website Temperature, humidity, speed, speed of movement, pressure, pad & paint all play a factor on "how long to work the polish in for"......Using a PC is not an exact science, every polish is different and everyone has their own method or style on using it....this is why I try to show different techniques, speed, etc in each video.



Majority of the time I'll use slower movement and add pressure when trying to remove deeper swirls/scratches and faster movement, less pressure for finishing or light swirls...But there are always exception to the rules. Just remember to take your time check your work as you go, change speed of movement & speed if needed and be patient until you get yourself familiar with the polish and machine.
 
SIP is probably the very best medium cut polish you can use with a PC. It's phenomenal cutting ability really helps put some muscle into the otherwise weak PC. You'll get much better correcting results with SIP and a PC than any other medium cut polish. You'd have to step up to a Power Gloss class compound to get any better correction. But then, if you used PG, you'd be faced with alot of haze and micromarring afterward.



SIP will finish down either LSP ready, or very close to LSP ready. Using 106FF afterwards just puts the proverbial icing on the cake.



IMHO, SIP and 106FF are the very finest polishes available for use with any dual action polisher.
 
SuperBee364 said:
SIP is probably the very best medium cut polish you can use with a PC. It's phenomenal cutting ability really helps put some muscle into the otherwise weak PC. You'll get much better correcting results with SIP and a PC than any other medium cut polish. You'd have to step up to a Power Gloss class compound to get any better correction. But then, if you used PG, you'd be faced with alot of haze and micromarring afterward.



SIP will finish down either LSP ready, or very close to LSP ready. Using 106FF afterwards just puts the proverbial icing on the cake.



IMHO, SIP and 106FF are the very finest polishes available for use with any dual action polisher.
Click to expand...



Hey, that's the answer I have been looking for!



Thanks. :woot2:
 
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