Menzerna 85RD, how are you working it?

L

LilJayV10

New member
Let me start buy say I'm most familiar with non diminishing abrasives, SMAT, M105/M205. I have some Menzerna 85RD and have used it before but I don't feel I'm getting the results out of it that I could be. I use the KBM for the SMAT products but I'm not really familiar with the diminishing stuff, I know its different but not sure how.



How do you prime the pad using diminishing abrasives? Is it the "X" or small drops like I have seen before?



What type of pad are you using?



What machine? Speed and pressure?



I did a search and I see 85RD mentioned a lot but I wasn't able to find how to actually work it for a high gloss finish.



I know when using the proper technique you can get M205 to finish down pretty damn nice. I want to have the knowledge/ability in my arsenal if I do need/want to use 85RD.



Thanks in advance. If there is a thread already covering this I apologize.



J
 
I'd like to hear some opinions/experiences about this too.



I remember that SuperBee364 (where is he anyhow?!?) posted about working it until/long after it got "like salad oil" but I forget the specifics. The whole thing, as he described it, sounded like a huge PIA (IPA/etc. to see if it "stays nice" post oil-removal, repeat endlessly, etc. etc.).



I don't think you'll have to truly master the product to improve upon what M205 leaves though. I can usually improve it quite a bit with just their 106 (whichever one is sold under the "Blackfire" name).
 
I love 85rd for finishing when the absolute best results are desired. It does take a little longer than 205 but I think the results are much better.



I use a DA polisher with 5.5" LC black flat pads. Once the pad is primed (take your pick on the method) it takes very little polish/section. It has a very long working time. I will usually make 4 slow passes (2H,2V) at speed ~5 and then drop to speed ~4 and reduce the pressure to just the weight of the machine for another 2 medium speed passes. Always remove excess polish from the pad between sections, (and sometimes I'll do so before the final 2 passes) and add just 3-4 small dabs of polish (about the size of a chocolate chip) for the next section. (Too much polish will cause it to take way too long to break down.) It does leave oils, so it is necessary to remove them before applying LSP.



Metal flake and lighter paints may not show off the difference the way solid black or red does. That is when I am happy to go with 205 in the interest of time.
 
I spent a lot of time on Autogeeks forum's last night. There are few threads about jeweling and 85RD. Some don't seem to think you can jewel with a D/A polisher because when using a soft pad the pad wiggles around and doesn't transfer the motion to the panel.



The few threads I have seen on jeweling with a D/A is start out with higher speeds around five then work down. In Mike Phillips video he is using a FLEX rotary and uses low speeds. I understand that they are two different machines and will require two different techniques.



From my limited knowledge I think I rotary would be better for jeweling. I think that's the only thing I would feel comfortable enough to use a rotary with.



I hope this thread gets some views. I would like to learn more about this stuff.



Thanks for the replies!
 
LilJayV10 said:
I spent a lot of time on Autogeeks forum's last night. There are few threads about jeweling and 85RD. Some don't seem to think you can jewel with a D/A polisher because when using a soft pad the pad wiggles around and doesn't transfer the motion to the panel. ..
Click to expand...



[Note: I prefer the term "burnishing" if only because "jeweling" has other, well-established meanings in contexts such as machining, but anyhow....]



I have *loads* of respect for Todd H. but I gotta disagree with him on this one. I've burnished/jeweled with non-rotary polishers and I did achieve what I was after (improvement of an already "flawless" finish). Maybe not the same level of results that he can achieve with his rotary, but it still turns out well for me. And note that *most people* can't discern whether it was done or not anyway.



No, I don't think it's likely with a Flex 3401. Not sure about a PC. But I've sure done it with a GG 6" and, most often, with a Cyclo. The Cyclo works very well for this IME, and I'm using the older single-speed model (bet the new variable-speed one would be even better, or at least more versatile). I bet a *short-throw* Rupes would be great.



Yeah, true Rotary-Meisters can do a better job of this with their rotaries. We've discussed this (burnishing via rotary vs. RO) before and I'll :bow to guys like John Kleven (he comes to mind as he and I have sorta-:argue this until I came around) and admit they're the [stuff]. But since guys like Yours Truly are more likely to instill holograms than achieve the utmost in gloss, I stick with ROs for my burnishing (when I bother doing it at all ;) ) and they work fine for me.



Of course, the whole "is it worth it? And if so, in what cases?" subject is another matter. But it's one that oughta get fair consideration before the work gets done.
 
RD35 can be fickle (doesn't break down properly or too hard to remove and leaves an oily film behind) when you apply too much polish using the RO.



So I learned to use very little at the beginning, break it down quickly, then add some more if needed.



But once you nail down RD it will rival most lsp's in shine'n'gloss.
 
I also burnish with RD using a GG or Cyclo. The results are rather impressive. Ive done it on my black Audi paint several times. I would only use the rotary to burnish with RD if its the only polisher you have. I guess using lower RPMs would do the trick. :nixweiss
 
I find the working time to vary depending on the paint...could be climate too I guess, but I've had times where is seem to take forever to break down to the "salad oil" look, and other times is breaks down super fast. While it will depend on the paint, I have done some side by sides with another detailer and on the particular paint we were working on the rotary gave a slightly better look than the GG6, with the same pads. Now granted it was very slight and we went back and forth for a while trying to tell which was better, so personally I say use which ever tool you're comfortable with.



When I use PO85RD or other DAT polishes I haven't been priming like I do with SMAT polishes. Instead I will place several small dots throughout the face of the pad vs. the typical 3-4 pea sized dots. I feel this better evens out the product and reduces the dry spots on the pad which can make it grabby. I start out on low speed with moderate pressure to spread the product around 600-900rpms then I bump it up to 1200-1500 with light pressure and work it until it breaks down, then reduce back down to 900 and work with no pressure until I get salad oil. :)



Keeping sections smaller helps cut down the time too. Been a while since I've jeweled/burnished a car.

20120429-_MG_6916.jpg
 
LilJay310- I consider it possible to instill holograms with *any* product on *any* pad. Note that I'm an absolute fanatic about them, simply will *NOT* drive a vehicle that has even the faintest hologram. Not even out of my driveway. Never.



Also, while I do poke fun at my relative (to guys like I mentioned) lack of rotary skills, I'm not a klutz by any means. I've used them on/off since the '70s and it's not like I'm some kind of hack with one ;) It's just sooo easy to instill the kind of light holograms that....well, to be honest, most people would never see them. But my wife and I do, at least after we knock ourselves out looking for them (and I don't mean just a 15 minute inspection).



RaskyR1-Hey, I agree with SO much of your post! :xyxthmbs



I too work very small areas and do the priming with those "many small dots" of product.



And yeah...all paints are different, but some are a *lot* more different than others :D
 
I really like 85 RD and think it does add that something extra. If you find yourself with a little spare time and you want to see what it will do, I don't think you'll be disappointed. While not the best photos, here's a before and after shot of the rear bumper wrap on my Porsche. I probably wouldn't add this step to the hood of my car now, as it's gotten pretty chipped up over the years but on an area like this, the RD does bring out a little more oomph. I also think 106, not sure what the new # for that is, comes awful close to these results with a black pad?



I used a blue 3M European pad on my Flex PE -12 rotary at about 900 and just really took my time doing some long, slow passes, with very light pressure.



DSC_2064.jpg




DSC_2072.jpg
 
I recall a post in one of these 85 RD threads--don't remember when, but quite a while ago--showing a really nice 50s vintage F-150 pickup in red and the photos did a good job of capturing the improvement from 85 RD.
 
landcruiser said:
I really like 85 RD and think it does add that something extra. If you find yourself with a little spare time ...]
Click to expand...



Heh heh...guess it's that "little spare time" that keeps mine on the shelf :o
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top