M105 Worse Than I Thought

[dan46n2]

What brand paper did you use to sand with?

I was using 3M, I have some unigrit on order. The only point I was trying to make is that the cut is less than Power Gloss. I initially bought M105 based on what I read here and was expecting something with more cut than Power Gloss. It does finish nicer but more cut would be nice.

 

[imported_Picus]

Sometimes PG works better on certain cars. Sometimes M105 works better. The key is knowing which to use for the job you're trying to accomplish. In my experience any compound/polish can fill to some extent, some more than others. I have experienced some filling with M105 and M95 (and 205, fwiw); but right now, generally speaking, M105 is what I use for most cutting. You just have to go into it knowing what it can and can't do.

 

[Barry Theal]

I wouldn't wetsand a car like that just to remove orange peel. You can spot sand the car to get rid of scratches, or Trizact 3000 the entire car if you want to do a great polish, but sanding factory paint down just to remove orange peel is silly.







John

Im curious to why you find this silly?

 

[Barry Theal]

I was using 3M, I have some unigrit on order. The only point I was trying to make is that the cut is less than Power Gloss. I initially bought M105 based on what I read here and was expecting something with more cut than Power Gloss. It does finish nicer but more cut would be nice.

Dan you need to remember not everyone is used to the old school ground and pound compound that can knock down orange peel! i remember about 11 years ago when i got into it 3m had this stuff in a paint can that you had to throw on with a paint stick. man i forget whats its called but i miss that stuff. lol it made m105 look like a poilsh , but i agree with ya on m105 and needing more cut!

 

[imported_rydawg1]

Sometimes PG works better on certain cars. Sometimes M105 works better. The key is knowing which to use for the job you're trying to accomplish. In my experience any compound/polish can fill to some extent, some more than others. I have experienced some filling with M105 and M95 (and 205, fwiw); but right now, generally speaking, M105 is what I use for most cutting. You just have to go into it knowing what it can and can't do.

:bigups Well said Kevin!!!!!!

 

[RaskyR1]

Dan you need to remember not everyone is used to the old school ground and pound compound that can knock down orange peel! i remember about 11 years ago when i got into it 3m had this stuff in a paint can that you had to throw on with a paint stick. man i forget whats its called but i miss that stuff. lol it made m105 look like a poilsh , but i agree with ya on m105 and needing more cut!

Bucket Cut! :har:



I remember using that stuff! My old man had 3M and Safety Kleen compound at his body shop...both came in buckets and it was like peanut butter! Talk about gettting dizzy after using that stuff for a few hours! :grinno:

 

[Deanski]

Paint really does swell. If it did not, it would easily crack due to the temperature fluctuations during the day. You can also test the swelling with a paint gauge. Buff a section with a cutting pad. In many cases, the paint reading will be thicker than when you started.



I suggest you read some of Jason's posts on swelling.

It's not really "swelling" per se, but now that more paint is waterborne, it does have a bit of a latex base in it to move, but not swell. heat anything and it expands to a degree, but not by application of alcohol.



Anyway, 105 should handle most anything with the right pad and speed combo. Meguiars makes some good cutting compounds and unless the paint is really hard it should take care of anything at 2000 grit.



Still, there's always a hype when they release what may be just a relabeled "tweeked" cutting compound.



I remember when everyone wanted NXT.. even lab samples!



I'd love to see the paint you're trying to correct.



Regards,

Deanski

 

[Scottwax]

Took me a few passes with #105 and a white foamed wool pad to pull 2000 Uni-grit sanding marks out of a C5 Corvette. I love #105, but I was suprised that it took some effort to remove the sanding marks.

 

[Scottwax]

Im curious to why you find this silly?

Speaking just for me, you have so little clear you can safely remove that you can't remove the horrible orange peel so many new cars have. All you can do is minimize it in a lot of cases. Just not worth the thinner clear IMO.

 

[PorscheGuy997]

It's not really "swelling" per se, but now that more paint is waterborne, it does have a bit of a latex base in it to move, but not swell. heat anything and it expands to a degree, but not by application of alcohol.

Sorry, but I'm getting the facts from Jason and the chemists. If paint is affected by the solvents used in polishes and compounds, it would surely be affected by IPA.

I won't speak for Jason here, but we had a discussion related to paint swelling.

I asked if he could give his opinion on the subject of IPA wipe downs.

More specifically, I asked if he preferred to use a glass cleaner that contains alcohol, or if he preferred to use straight alcohol.



Jason mentioned that alcohol (when used in a strong concentration) would DEFINITELY have a swelling effect on a majority of paint types.

In addition, he opined that using very strong concentrations of IPA is overkill, and may be detrimental to many paint types.

The newer version of M105 has more lubricity than the old formula. That means that it is necessary to use a higher rpm with the new version, than the old version.

 

[JohnKleven]

I'm not very impressed with Meguiar's products in general. The Power Gloss is fantastic, and can save a lot of time when wetsanding an entire vehicle.





John

 

[imported_Picus]

I figure I should elaborate a bit on what I said before. I do definitely think every product (well most) have a place. For me, M105 accomplishes the correction I need on most vehicles I work on; PG is (normally) too much, and doesn't finish down well enough to justify it's use on a regular basis. I still use it and Presta Strata Ultra often enough though, when sanding and when working on hard clear. FWIW, I find Presta Ultra has more cut than PG. I have not used Supercut, but I want to give it a try.

 

[SuperBee364]

The only way paint can really swell with alcohol is "IF" there is an embedded silicon layer (example: Simonize, certain silicon based qd's) trapped within the clear that will not come out.



Other than that, I will gaurantee that alcohol will not harm paint.



I have done numerous extensive corrections on a few delicate paints that were in serious need of lots of extensive polishing (60 plus hours) and all of them, I have used lots of alcohol in between every step and stage, ensuring 100% correction and perfection to my standards.



On some cars I have used anywhere from 20-40 oz. of alcohol and after seeing the cars years later and noticing that the paint is still in the same condition as the last time I had finished my intensive work to it.



So, I know from LOTS of experience that alcohol will not have any adverse reaction with clean and clear paint. If it does, then there is something on/in the paint causing it to outgas upon alcohol wipedown and making it swell.



But, keep in mind, how many vehicles out there have been siliconed to death by hack shops and car dealers..... That's where the problem lies.



I have used alcohol on 105 and have NOT had any problems.

Sometimes PG works better on certain cars. Sometimes M105 works better. The key is knowing which to use for the job you're trying to accomplish. In my experience any compound/polish can fill to some extent, some more than others. I have experienced some filling with M105 and M95 (and 205, fwiw); but right now, generally speaking, M105 is what I use for most cutting. You just have to go into it knowing what it can and can't do.

Such good stuff had to be repeated.



All this "paint swelling" stuff as a means of explaining why defects return after IPA makes me giggle.



And as good as M105 is, Picus reminds us that we should always attempt to match the best product we have to the job we're doing. I keep telling my wife that's why I *need* 100 different polishes. She just doesn't get it, though.

 

[wannafbody]

How cured, crosslinked paint can swell is beyond me. To truly swell the solvents would have to soak into the paint pores and soften the paint and then after evaporating the paint would have to re-cure. I think that heat expansion is a more realistic way of describing what is taking place. If the solvents are actually softening the paint then we probably ought to quit polishing cars or manufacturers should switch over to water based polishes to avoid damage.

 

[Got Wax]

Can't say that I agre with the statement that better lubricity means need for higher rpm. In my view, just means longer falsh time, more time to work the product.

The newer version of M105 has more lubricity than the old formula. That means that it is necessary to use a higher rpm with the new version, than the old version.